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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

597 replies

Littlemissmuff · 24/01/2018 12:08

NC as this may be outing.

I have 3 friends, all have toddlers between 2 and 3 years old.
Our children play together frequently and their parenting style is driving me mad.
One of them literally never says no to her son, he can hit our childre or destroy something but instead she insists on talking nicely to him even though he is definitely not listening.
Another one has a huge moan several times a day about how tired she is and she fed up of her toddler getting her up all night to breastfeed; however won't do anything about it and won't take any suggestions such as water or night weaning and states that it is cruel and our roles as mothers are to cuddle our children all night if we have to if that's what they demand even at age 3.
I don't care how they parent their child but I do when it's affecting my son, he is forever getting pushed about by these kids now and he is constantly seeing them doing really dangerous behaviour and "risk taking" without any parent intervention which then makes me look awful to him if i tell him no if he tries to copy them climbing on to the TV stand or windowsill.
I don't know what research shows, but my god these children are so much more naughty than any other children I know.
Aibu to end our playdates even though it might end our friendship?

OP posts:
speakout · 25/01/2018 21:52

NotReadyToMove I agree.

My children are the same.

youarenotkiddingme · 25/01/2018 21:55

* Genuinely puzzled - what happens when they go to school and get told no? Do the parents complain to the teachers?*

Ime - yes!

I'm not sure my friend signed up to gentle parenting - more ineffective so the idea of always being positive. But the 2/3yo ignoring mummy and being labelled "a little monkey" becomes the 12/13 yo on secondary school who isn't 'the little monkey' for ignoring a direct instruction and will be disciplined alongside the schools behaviour policy.

And mummy will constantly justify the child's behaviour by explaining why the child did x y and z and tell the school why they are wrong to expect said 'monkey' to adhere to the rules like others!

speakout · 25/01/2018 21:55

My kids don't need punishment in order to develop a sense of morality.

catkind · 25/01/2018 21:55

Completely irrelevant but aargh the phrase "we don't hit" makes my teeth itch. You may not, child clearly does. "Please don't hit DS" or "no hitting please" would be rather more to the point.

Or even better follow their positive parenting style the way it's supposed to be done, gently stop child from hitting yours and say "gentle hands please" or something. 100% positive and noone gets hurt either. If they're not okay with even that degree of restraint they can choose not to visit you if they want. You don't have to let your child get hit. I'd say we did fairly gentle parenting with toddlers, but that was a very long way from letting them hit people or run riot.

IkeaGrinch · 25/01/2018 21:58

Interesting side observation- I’m guessing many who start out as ‘everything’s permitted’ parents soon justify enormous amounts of screen time in total defeat. So you get the worst possible combination- kids who are both massively entitled and basically brain dead.

I follow a gentle parenting approach (which, as discussed already, is not an anything permitted approach). The only screen time we have in our home is watching things like clips from nature documentaries together. So, in my experience your generalisation isn’t accurate.

MaisyPops · 25/01/2018 21:59

I’ve seen these kids when they hit school...sucks all the teacher’s time while the disciplined kids sit there learning exactly nothing
Yup.
The types of parent who think their child's lack of progress is because the teacher hasn't engaged their darling.
The type of parent who tells their child they don't have to do x y z because it's their choice
The type who endlessly call up being 'that parent' complaining about the latest reason teachers shouldn't sanction their child because 'they were JUST...'

In time once their child gets a reputation it'w because the school have a vendetta against their
And then by Year11 it gets to spring parents' evening they are demanding to speak to senior leadership about why their child is underperforming and want to know what school are doing to put it right because 'dc wants to go to college and a top university and they can't do that on tjeir current grades'.

When you see mumsnet threads like:

  • AIBU to think school should not have sanctioned my dc because the evidently black trainers are totes school shoes... and anyway it doesn't matter what they have on their feet. Why are schools so intnet on oppressing children?!
  • AIBU to think my child shouldn't have been refused lunch because they were only talking. They missed ghe WHOLE lunch (totally didn't) and could have died of hunger because they just asked their partner what the task was and then only asked thr teacher what to do when they were stuck. My child is strong verbally and enjoys expressing themselves but teachers are too busy trying to stifle that side because they want mini robots. in other words ky child is a disruptive pupil.who doesn't shut up, asks ridiculous questions and has to have attention on them at all times. Teh teacher had already told them what to do 5 times
Pengggwn · 25/01/2018 22:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

speakout · 25/01/2018 22:02

MaisyPops what you describe are the children of lax parents, not gentle ones.

Two different things.

Gentle parents usually expect high standards of behaviour.

Lax parents don't.

NotReadyToMove · 25/01/2018 22:03

The children you are talking about who take all the teachers time etc... are children who have never been given any boundaries.
It has nothing to do with gentle parenting.

What the OP is describing is lazy parenting, of which yu have lots of different types. From the one who lets their child do everything and tell other parents that it’s them testing their strength, they can’t help it etc... to the ones who are shouting and threatening but still let the child do whatever they want.

I fully agree that explaining and explaining, supporting the child etc... gets better results. And it avoids creating a distance between the parent and the child. It’s efficient and has the advantage of not be8ng based on fear/rewards, ie when the punishment or the reward isn’t there, the child has no reason to follow said rule.

IkeaGrinch · 25/01/2018 22:04

It teaches them that the consequence of being inconsiderate to others will be unpleasant for them. It is a deterrent, plain and simple.

But all that teaches them is that if they want to avoid unpleasant consequences for them as an individual then they should do what someone else has told them to do. So the only reason they care about having spilled the water, for example, is because it leads to their favourite toy being taken away. I think that promotes a very individualistic view of the world too.

NotReadyToMove · 25/01/2018 22:06

apeakout I agree.

I have never punished my dcs (nor give them rewards either) but I know my expectations as such that I am actually considered quite strict by my dcs and the MN standards.

speakout · 25/01/2018 22:07

But all that teaches them is that if they want to avoid unpleasant consequences for them as an individual then they should do what someone else has told them to do. So the only reason they care about having spilled the water, for example, is because it leads to their favourite toy being taken away. I think that promotes a very individualistic view of the world too.

Absolutely- it teaches zero empathy.

MaisyPops · 25/01/2018 22:08

speakout
I mentioned that distinction earlier in the thread.

People who gentle parent who have boundaries generally get on with it and have well behaved and polite children.

People who endlessly go on about gentle parenting and talk about how they don't do x y z with their darlings are the ones who use the label of gentle parenting to raise brats who they brand 'cheeky monkeys' but who turn into almost unteachable, rude teenagers. They almost always become 'those parents' at school.

speakout · 25/01/2018 22:12

To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

But the title of the thread remains.

I practice gentle parenting. I must infuriate.

Pengggwn · 25/01/2018 22:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aeroflotgirl · 25/01/2018 22:17

speakout she is talking about her gentle parenting friends, not gentle parenting in general. Unless you are one of those friends, its not about you.

Barbara1956 · 25/01/2018 22:18

Speaking as a mother of grown up children I can say that I met this gentle parenting in the late 80's , on my son's 4th birthday one perfect child purposely took and destroyed his favourite present. My son was clearly upset but the mother just shrugged it off as boys playing. Fast forward to teenage years and the perfect child was involved with the police at 14. He is now in prison and his parents can't understand why...it's so sad.
My kids were taught right from ring in a compassionate way , never smacked but told off when needs be , both are now happy , well adjusted, highly educated and contributing to society.
How you parent matters..it cannot be left to a passing fad.

meandmytinfoilhat · 25/01/2018 22:22

I knew someone who took this approach with her daughter.

Her daughter is an entitled brat and Mum doesn't understand why her daughter behaves like this.

I don't smack my son, I never have, but he does get a row if the behaviour warrants it at the time.

speakout · 25/01/2018 22:22

Aeroflotgirl my point is these are not "gentle" parents- they are lax, neglectful parents.

Aeroflotgirl · 25/01/2018 22:24

I know, but they probably have told op, they are practising gentle parenting, hence her calling them her gentle parenting friends.

Kerala2712 · 25/01/2018 22:25

My three year old understand ‘no’. She may not always like it, but tough.

IkeaGrinch · 25/01/2018 22:30

Penggwyn

So a GP approach might be:
Child asked to help clean up spilled water and parent explains that their actions have created more work for the person running the group.
Child is taken out of group and it is explained to them that this is happening because their clothes are wet and will need to be changed

A non-GP approach might be:
Child asked to help clean up spilled water
Child told/made to apologise to group facilitator
Child has favourite toy confiscated or favourite activity cancelled and presumably is told that this is punishment for spilling the water.

So one of the main differences is that the GP approach favours a consequence that is clearly linked to the problematic behaviour, rather than a more arbitrary consequences like taking away a favourite possession. I think that’s more likely to help a child understand the consequences of their behaviour than simply taking away something that is of great value to them. The GP approach teaches them that because they ignored a parents instructions and spilled water their clothes are wet and they will have to take time away from an activity they were enjoying to get dry clothes on. The non-GP approach teaches that they should obey adults because otherwise adults will take away things that the child values. I actually think the GP approach teaches a more useful lesson here.

TremendousWorkGodfrey · 25/01/2018 22:55

I went through this shit with some mums when my dc were little. In the end I had enough and just stopped seeing them. No drama, no fall out just didn’t bother phoning them to make arrangements (and they didn’t phone me so clearly weren’t fussed either). I found a new set of like minded mum friends and dc and I were much happier.

I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who said ‘change your tribe’.

puglife15 · 25/01/2018 23:00

To do gentle parenting with firm boundaries is really fucking hard.

It's staying calm when you want to shout at your child, rejecting the way you were (probably) raised and doing things differently, not using punishment or reward to influence behaviour, making thoughtful and difficult decisions on the best route forward. It would be much easier to shout at and sleep train and punish your child a lot of the time to get quick results.

That's probably why a fair few people who start along the "gentle parenting" route end up with lax boundaries, because it's exhausting and/or they're not sure how to handle things as there's so much focus on what you shouldn't do.

I tried, not always successfully, to use a lot of gentler parenting tactics and DC1 is pretty well behaved. I looked after my friend's DC the other day who gets the full naughty step type treatment and his behaviour was really bad! I think it's part nature and part nurture.

TremendousWorkGodfrey · 25/01/2018 23:01

Oh and agree with everything @maisypops says. This cartoon sums it up the results of parents who won’t hold their child responsible for anything...

To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?