To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

[Littlemissmuff]

NC as this may be outing.

I have 3 friends, all have toddlers between 2 and 3 years old.
Our children play together frequently and their parenting style is driving me mad.
One of them literally never says no to her son, he can hit our childre or destroy something but instead she insists on talking nicely to him even though he is definitely not listening.
Another one has a huge moan several times a day about how tired she is and she fed up of her toddler getting her up all night to breastfeed; however won't do anything about it and won't take any suggestions such as water or night weaning and states that it is cruel and our roles as mothers are to cuddle our children all night if we have to if that's what they demand even at age 3.
I don't care how they parent their child but I do when it's affecting my son, he is forever getting pushed about by these kids now and he is constantly seeing them doing really dangerous behaviour and "risk taking" without any parent intervention which then makes me look awful to him if i tell him no if he tries to copy them climbing on to the TV stand or windowsill.
I don't know what research shows, but my god these children are so much more naughty than any other children I know.
Aibu to end our playdates even though it might end our friendship?

FHK44 its everything to do with her, if this child is hurting her child or destroying her home, don't you think! They are not being very nice friends, by allowing their children to hurt ops, and to tell off op, if she says no to them.

aero- The horror stories I read on here from people who are giving examples, of those who just do not get 'gentle parenting', are shocking. They are just being lazy and cannot be bothered to parent their own child.

I totally disagree.
Being a gentle parent is about setting boundaries, of having expectations, of sometimes saying no.
It's to do with how we arrive at these goals.
I actually think being a gentle parent is harder work than being an authoritarian one.

Pengggwn in Your example, I would have actually started by making the child clean the water. So Natural Consequences That is teaching them that all the this yu have bee talking about re extra work, leaning after yourself, being careful about other people etc...

But then, I suspect it would never have got to the point where dc would have spilled the water in purpose. That’s sort if things is usually the consequences of a lot of things happening before, that would have been dealt with (eg playing with said water in the room, fooling around etc...)
As for ignoring what you told them.... they would have been redirected BEFORE it got to the point to spilling water like this on purpose tbh so they would have learnt they can’t just ignore what they aren’t keen on.

I’m wondering though, what wouod have done? And how do you think it wouod have worked to teach something to the child?

Fwiw, I used that sort of techniques with bith my dcs. They are teens now, respectful, indépendant and reliable. And nowhere the individualistic person that is wondering if it will cost or benefit them.

Attachment - or gentle - parenting and attachment theory are very different things. I believe that the theory is very sound and emphasises the importance of boundaries and (positive) discipline. But it seems like gentle parenting can often slip into permissive parenting which has been shown to be detrimental! Kids need boundaries to keep them safe and so that they learn what's acceptable behaviour. They push the limits in order to test those boundaries because they need to feel security. They can feel really confused & overwhelmed when they are given too much freedom. Some kids are better equipped to handle less discipline than others. For eg. I've found that I've had to be much more 'strict' with my dd than with her brother who is 2 years older, she gets overwhelmed otherwise. Now I'm not saying I get it right all the time - I've become very very fucking sweary since my dd hit 3 - but I think that some of these parents are getting it very wrong.

Okay, but I don’t see how taking away a toy or activity achieves the things you said a punishment should in this case.

How does it address the extra work made for the parent or group facilitator?
How does it address the child ignoring an instruction?
How does it teach them that they should consider how behaviour affects everyone, not only themselves?

Hi five x

Speak I was talking about those in the op, who just let their children do as they please, even if it means hurting other kids. And the example given, who girl pushed another child at nursery, and the mother said she was testing her strength, wtaf!! Its those types that give gentle parenting a bad name.

Aeroflot your example of your child being rude to you or raising his hand to you is an interesting one to me.
Because, despite being of those horrible parent who is using gentle parenting techniques and clearly hasn’t given any boundaries to my dcs, my dcs have never done anything like this.

I would have never tolerated anything like this coming form them.

aero- yes but these are not gentle parents.

They sound neglectful parents because they are failing their children

That's not being gentle.

For whatever reason, he must have seen it at school, he did, and I dealt with that.

What's the problem with just reinforcing "being kind" rather than focussing on the negative of "don't hit"?

It can achieve exactly the same result but doesn't shame the child involved. After all it's not the child that is bad, just the behaviour.

Why not try "in this house we are kind to one another" said in a stern voice. Kid will understand he's being reprimanded but you're reinforcing the positive.

Exactly, there are some good examples form Gentle parents on here that do it how it should, I end up nodding my head agreeing with them. But not the examples in the op and others on here, where its not done how it should.

Natural consequences definitely can work. I remember my DS was 3ish, refused point blank to put his coat on every time we left the house. I tried telling him off, everything. One time we were running so late to an important appointment I explained that if he didn't put on his coat he would be freezing, before this he had never experienced why I was so adamant he put on the coat. Well we left without him putting on the coat, he soon got cold, put his coat on and he's never done it again.

No child should be abused, but to bring them up without boundaries and firm guidance is almost as bad

In a way it is as bad, because these children end up without any friends and without a clue about how they should behave in society.

In my experience children with very lax parents are as insecure as the children of very strict parents. When just automatically say "yes" all the time or "no" the time, it means we aren't paying attention.

"Don't hit" or "no hitting" isnt shaming the child, its a clear, unambiguous instruction.
"Be kind" or "in this house we are kind to each other" - what does that even mean to a 3 year old. What do you want them to do? Bake the other child a cake? Give them a kiss? A toy? Take turns nicely? No - you want them not to hit!

I regularly look after a kid who is gently patented, or centre of the universe parented as it actually is.

Child (6) is an absolute nightmare. Shouts over adults, deliberately breaks things, is so bloody miserable, manipulative and entitled it's unreal.

Child is actually better behaved when with me (and at school aswell, does well with boundaries) but I find I have to be so firm with this child it's uncomfortable for me. I do it, but it's not nice.

My child understands "no" very well and is very happy within the quite reasonable boundaries I've set. I think the other child's problems actually stem from having no boundaries at home: there are no consequences to bad behaviour, and even if a consequence is threatened it's never followed through. Generally, this child does so much better when there are boundaries like at school.

I dread to think what these children are going to be like when they grow up.

Exactly Peng, with saying don't hit, your addressing the behaviour, they are hitting, and you want them to stop. If they are very young, they might not understand the concept of being kind.

Oh I’ve seen these kids when they hit school...sucks all the teacher’s time while the disciplined kids sit there learning exactly nothing.

Good friend of mine (3DC) uses the school principal’s name to scare all of them into better behaviour at home (no other discipline ever apparent). Only the eldest is at school, but the other two see the principal at drop-off/pick up.

The other day I heard her tell the kids that the internal burglar alarm sensors in their home were actually cameras through which the principal watched their behaviour. When the little red light goes on, she says that’s him warning them that punishment is coming. You should see the 2yo’s face when the principal (actually a lovely man) is nearby.

Can’t help but think she could manage the odd timeout or ‘natural consequence’ with the kids, rather than this complicated fiction. I’m also sure it won’t help their education much?

Also had two ‘gently parented’ kids with parents to stay this week. Any time they acted up, they were plonked on screen devices. Given the 4yo’s impressive Minecraft skills, this is obviously what happens 24/7 instead of timeout.

Interesting side observation- I’m guessing many who start out as ‘everything’s permitted’ parents soon justify enormous amounts of screen time in total defeat. So you get the worst possible combination- kids who are both massively entitled and basically brain dead.

By the way, I’m not against screens per se. I admit to getting judgey when they ‘had’ to bring the iPads to the beach on a 30 degree perfect day, and we all had to leave early when they ran outta charge!

FHK44

You're slagging off op online. So she's horrible for being fed up that other kids and parents disrespect her and her kids? Would you put up with it? Can you give an example of how you would address it- or put up with it?

I breastfed. Like billions. I was knackered but if I kept banging on about how tired I was, I wouldn't be in someone else's house taking the piss or winging . And she's used a phrase- to describe and she's described her mates take on it. She didn't criticise every 'gentle parenter'.

'Educate yourself' ? Rude!

Penggwyn, I agree about the child helping to clear up any mess (and, for what it’s worth, I think that’s one of the logical consequences some people criticise gentle parenting for). I still don’t see how taking away a favourite toy achieves any of the things you said a punishment should though, in particular fostering an understanding of the way their behaviour affects others.