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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

710 replies

churchoflego · 24/01/2018 09:55

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

OP posts:
CrazyExIngenue · 24/01/2018 12:01

It's not so simple as saying Men commit most violent crimes, therefore men are violent, or Women shoplift the most therefore women are thieves. This whole man/boy hate bullshit is such a dumbing down of a much greater problem that encompasses behaviors by both men and women that create a culture and society where it is ok and encouraged for men to be violent asshats. Even men/boys that aren't violent themselves, and women/girls that aren't "playing the victim" contribute to this culture in subtle ways.

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 12:03

They blame men (as a class) and don't understand how this is offensive.

I think that's been covered several times over in this thread. Talking about how men as a class need to take responsibility for misogyny (btw for THEIR benefit as well as ours - look at male suicide rates!) is NOT THE SAME THING as saying "I hate men, all men are evil". Jesus.

They are hypocritical in their oversimplification of issues. NAMALT is apparently unacceptable whereas the opposite is true if radical feminists are used as examples of issues.

What is a radical feminist and what examples here are you talking about because I can't think of any?

They misuse statistics to suit their agenda.

Which statistics?

They talk about men and the patriarchy and how 'the menz' need to sort out any problem which does affect them but use the term MRA if anyone tries and help men.

I've spoken several times about male suicide rates on this thread, as one example. As another, you do realise that a lot of the problems which men face in society are because of the fucking patriarchy and misogyny?

They ignore the significant advantages women now have in society simply continuing to say that society is stacked against them despite evidence to the contrary.

What evidence to the contrary? What advantages do I have, as a woman, which my DH and my son don't have?

They shout-down people like the OP for daring to have a different opinion or question.

OP has not been "shouted down". OP has been challenged, and thus far has not provided any coherent response. "Shouting down" would be SHUT UP OP YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO POST.

Thoughts?

CritEqual · 24/01/2018 12:03

It is a lazy shorthand. I'm all for class analysis btw, anyone is 100% right to point out most assaults/murders a committed by men. That has got to be the starting point. However the sort of class analysis I see going on renders invisible the majority of male victims of male violence, and in fact lumps in those victims with the perpetrators which is neither helpful or is likely to change anything.

I often hear cries that it's up to men as a class to correct male violence, but if I was a male who had had the shit kicked out of him on several occasions I'd be inclined to keep my head down for fear of it happening again. Yet according to a lot of people I'd be being complicit and part of the problem.

DriggleDraggle · 24/01/2018 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngelsSins · 24/01/2018 12:16

Are women suddenly raping boys and men on a large scale then? Are women suddenly killing their male partners at a rate of 2 per week? Are women suddenly committing 96% of all violent crime and 98% of all sex crimes? Are women blocking men from all the top jobs and holding the majority of positions in parliament? Are women sexually harassing young boys in the street?

Yes you're right, we should be very concerned about all this "man hate"....

DriggleDraggle · 24/01/2018 12:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
churchoflego · 24/01/2018 12:22

It's as ridiculous to argue that men as a "class" need to be held to account for "toxic masculinity" or certain crimes as it would be to argue that all Muslims are responsible for the majority of modern day terrorism, so they need to be held to account for "toxic Islamism", which nobody on Mumsnet would ever say.

Individuals, who just happen to be men commit violent attacks just as individuals who just happen to be women are over-represented in other crimes such as benefit fraud. Is benefit fraud therefore an example of "toxic femininty"? Of course not. It is all rubbish, identity politics which doesn't do anything to actually solve the problem and seems to just want to ferment more discord.

OP posts:
HeckyPeck · 24/01/2018 12:23

The risk of being murdered BY A MAN is high.

There are more male murder victims than female each year so men aren't more likely to be victims as well.

Focusing on gender just divides people and I think people need to work together (regardless of gender) to create a better society.

If someone said to me it was somehow my fault that woman are more likely to be thieves (especially if I was more likely to be a victim of theft) just because I'm also a woman it'd hardly be a good opener to a discussion on what to do about thievery.

stitchglitched · 24/01/2018 12:23

Do you think it is pure coincidence that men commit 96% of all violent crime then OP? And it isn't worth discussing why?

HeckyPeck · 24/01/2018 12:24

That was meant to say are more likely not aren't!

CrazyExIngenue · 24/01/2018 12:25

Individuals, who just happen to be men commit violent attacks just as individuals who just happen to be women are over-represented in other crimes such as benefit fraud. Is benefit fraud therefore an example of "toxic femininty"?

I'd argue it's an example of a patriarchal society and its effects.

LadyOfTheCanyon · 24/01/2018 12:27

Sure, lets conflate this with Islam. Because that'll help.

Crowdo · 24/01/2018 12:27

I agree, OP. If you replaced men with any other class of people, it becomes immediately obvious to anyone why it is unacceptable.

heyHoney · 24/01/2018 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LittleLionMansMummy · 24/01/2018 12:28

and she is also at risk of being drenched in acid by a jealous ex-girl friend.

Not a great example Shasta since all the recent acid attacks making headlines have been committed by teenage boys/ men...

EggsonHeads · 24/01/2018 12:30

Treating half the human race as a class is stupid and wrong. If someone said to you working class people commit the majority of violent crimes would you think that it was ok to draw inference from that just because it was factually correct?

restbiterepeat · 24/01/2018 12:33

My DH and my sons are at as much as risk of male violence as I am, if not moreso.

Until we can start talking about male violence without having to wade through a barrage of NAMALT, then men, women and children remain at risk.

AngelsSins · 24/01/2018 12:34

Let's look at porn. If there is so much hate out there for boys and men, why is porn normalising violence and abuse of women? Standard porn these days shows women being choked, forced and humiliated. This is what a lot of men get off on, clearly. That doesn't seem to add up to men hating does it? Looks very much like good old fashioned hatred of women, and their sexuality (seeing as women's pleasure is not even seen as having a place in a lot of porn).

Oh and if we're going to have a foot stamping season about #notallmen, then stop blaming all women/all feminists for this so called "man hate".

heyHoney · 24/01/2018 12:39

This reply has been deleted

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LadyOfTheCanyon · 24/01/2018 12:39

My DH and my sons are at as much as risk of male violence as I am, if not more so

Until we can start talking about male violence without having to wade through a barrage of NAMALT, then men, women and children remain at risk

Happy to talk about it, but it is still perpetuated by men...

AngelsSins · 24/01/2018 12:40

Complaints such as women blocking men from top jobs in parliament suggest that posters aren't even aware of who their Prime Minister is.

Ahh yes you're completely right, a second female priminister in our whole history, operating in a heavily male dominant environment, really does equal everything up doesn't it?

Why is it that you can say men are hated these days, and it's so unfair for boys, but you can't accept that women also receive hate, and it's not fair on girls?

TeaAddict235 · 24/01/2018 12:40

"The entire world is catered to men." @PecanPieFace

Actually it is catered to white men, just look at Trump and numerous other mediocre, unattractive (as this is always used against women), unfit men. Could a woman or a POC be all of those things and get even half as far??^^ For example look at the racist and sexist abuse that say Mrs Obama, Megan Markle and Diane Abbot get! They are not mediocre, nor unattractive, but the exact opposite yet the trolls come out hunting when these women are in the public.

LadyOfTheCanyon · 24/01/2018 12:42

heyHoney

You don't need statistics, you just need to look at the homepage of any popular porn site.
Not suggesting you do if you don't want to, but I would trust Angel on this one.

AngelsSins · 24/01/2018 12:44

Any proof of anything you've said? I don't look at porn let alone have access to the statistics you clearly do.

Well I can't force you to look at porn can I? If you're unwilling to look, then I'm not sure how I'm meant to prove it! As for stats, a simple google will show you, and seeing as you have access to Mumsnet, I'm pretty sure you have access to a web search.

restbiterepeat · 24/01/2018 12:46

Happy to talk about it, but it is still perpetuated by men...

That was my point. Confused

I suppose particularly I meant to point out that while the posters here feel that they are defending the individual men in their lives by saying "Not all men are like that" it only serves to crowd the debate and keeps those individual men at risk of male violence as much as anyone else.