to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

What IS this famous "female card" that apparently women can "play" to get all the advantages that society offers?

Its a recent thing isn’t it, this labelling of any ideas you don’t like or don’t agree with as ‘hate’.

I’m not so sure. As a society, we have become more fragmented over the past 50 years. Religious beliefs and the moral codes we have lived by for centuries are breaking down and until recently, we were governed by rigid societal rules. The priest/vicar etc told us how to think and feel, who or what to love and hate. And there was plenty of hate flying around along with lots of love.

I definitely don’t hate men and boys. I don’t see them as superior or inferior. We are all human. We are all equal. Unfortunately there are a core of men, who despise this paradigm shift and are clawing their way back. The pendulum, which was slowly swinging toward equality is once again shifting in the favour of males. And by this, I don’t mean men as individuals, but as a collectivity.

The sad thing is that it is the majority, who are destroyed and subjugated, women and girls, along with many men and boys, particularly the less aggressive males. And there is now no religious code to stop them.

I just genuinely despair when other women are so wilfully blind.

I don't see how it can ever get better or how we can ever axe the patriarchy because people genuinely don't want to believe or see it. I can't say I blame them in some ways. Life was a lot easier before I saw the light!

What's really depressing is that some people can't tell the difference between class analysis and hate

I understand the argument here, but I think there is some inconsistency with class analysis. I don't have the figures to hand, but let's for a moment assume most acts of international terrorism are committed by muslims, and most inner city crime in the US is committed by African Americans.

Would it be fine as a class analysis to say that there is a "Muslim" problem, or a "Black" problem? If not, why not? I think most people would want the class refined, perhaps to say young, disaffected, muslim males, living in certain situations.

what the fuck is "playing the female card"?

Is there an actual card women can play and they get an advantage? Someone forgot to send me mine.

I don't have the figures to hand, but let's for a moment assume most acts of international terrorism are committed by muslims, and most inner city crime in the US is committed by African Americans

Most terrorists are men regardless of race or religion. There is it is again. The common thing which unites terrorists is sex.

Yes men commit most violent crimes but women commit most shoplifting and or fraud cases so should we call all women theives / untrustworthy because its a fact woman commit the most shoplifting and fraud cases.

Shasta - I wasn't talking about bullying. I was talking about things MOSTLY committed by men - domestic violence ( overwhelming MEN) Rape ( MEN) stalking ( MEN) lack of understanding about consent (MEN) being hurt/MURDERED by a current or former partner ( MEN), Being sexually assaulted - MEN. Revenge pron - MEN.
But sure, let's bring it all down to girls bullying girls because that's what this debate is about.

Yanbu

Yes men commit most violent crimes but women commit most shoplifting and or fraud cases so should we call all women theives / untrustworthy because its a fact woman commit the most shoplifting and fraud cases.

Yet AGAIN, no one has said that all men are violent.

When is the last time a woman in the UK stabbed a man to death in his place of work just because he had a connection to another man who had dared to reject her? That has happened to women twice in the UK in just the past month.

It's a recent thing, isn't it, this labelling of any ideas you don't like or don't agree with as 'hate'?

Yes ever since Trump got elected the liberals jumped on this.

Yes men commit most violent crimes but women commit most shoplifting and or fraud cases so should we call all women theives / untrustworthy because its a fact woman commit the most shoplifting and fraud cases.

No you would need to rephrase that a little to say most thieves are women.

My Uncle uses ‘playing the female card’

My uncle is an absolute bellend

I don't have the figures to hand, but let's for a moment assume most acts of international terrorism are committed by muslims, and most inner city crime in the US is committed by African Americans. Would it be fine as a class analysis to say that there is a "Muslim" problem, or a "Black" problem? If not, why not? I think most people would want the class refined, perhaps to say young, disaffected, muslim males, living in certain situations.

A lot of violence arises from a number of different factors. There are other obvious factors besides toxic masculinity in the examples you mentioned, but that doesn't mean that masculinity doesnt play a role. But what factors are you going to use to refine the class that commits rape?

Yes men commit most violent crimes but women commit most shoplifting and or fraud cases so should we call all women theives

No, and nobody is saying ALL MEN are murderers!

If most thefts are committed by women, then the class of women commits most thefts.

If most murders are committed by men, then the class of men commits most murders.

NOBODY is saying ALL. We are saying THE CLAS OF.

I agree with you op.

It does come across as men v women.

No matter how you academically explain it (and it seems like a lot of feminism is very academic), it does still come across that way.

If many people are telling you it comes across that way, then that is how it comes across to them and how they’ve taken it. It will therefore detract from support for feminism. Support that feminists could have from women and men, who are normal every day people.

I'd be amazed if women commit more fraud than men - is that true?

So what could feminists do to change that in your opinion rcit?

And what on this thread tells you it's men vs women?

Your daughter is still at risk of being killed by a male partner or former partner whether she lives in Saudi Arabia or not.

and she is also at risk of being drenched in acid by a jealous ex-girl friend.

There's no point trying to convince anyone on here, when posters have decided that men are then enemy and women are "sisters", nothing will change their views. It's easier to pretend fighting for equality whilst playing the female card, I get it.
It's sad, it's nowhere realistic, but we don't have to agree with it, because IT'S NOT TRUE!

No matter how you academically explain it (and it seems like a lot of feminism is very academic), it does still come across that way.

Yes, let's throw aside logic and reason and engage with the feelz.

Has anyone been able to show yet where men are called the devil or the enemy? How does this man hating manifest itself? Genuinely, I'm interested. Even with all the high profile show business sexual abuse cases going on, I don't believe I've ever read that all men are abusers or the enemy?

The fact that men would be treated differently on here to women has nothing to do with us all being supposed men haters. Surely it's just a perspective thing? If we posted on the male equivalent to mumsnet then I expect we would be treated more harshly than our male counterpoints as they'd be seeing things from their point of view not ours.

Trigger warning

But what factors are you going to use to refine the class that commits rape?

We had a discussion about this recently. In the UK, in order to commit a rape, UK law says you need a penis, so by definition rapes can only be committed by men. As a result, a class analysis of rape that only uses masculinity as the causal factor wouldn't tell us anything.

*and she is also at risk of being drenched in acid by a jealous ex-girl friend.

There's no point trying to convince anyone on here, when posters have decided that men are then enemy and women are "sisters", nothing will change their views. It's easier to pretend fighting for equality whilst playing the female card, I get it.
It's sad, it's nowhere realistic, but we don't have to agree with it, because IT'S NOT TRUE!*

Er no, the risk of being doused in acid is minimal. The risk of being murdered BY A MAN is high.

Are you really so thick that you will wilfully ignore the statistics which tell you this? Do you think they are made up? I'm genuinely asking.