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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

710 replies

churchoflego · 24/01/2018 09:55

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

OP posts:
NeedsAsockamnesty · 24/01/2018 11:01

What's really depressing is that some people can't tell the difference between class analysis and hate. Men do not commit more violent crimes because of some innate biological trait inherent in all men, but because our horrible fucking toxic culture still celebrates violence as ultra masculine, because we live in a porn culture that dehumanises women, and because they can

This. Precisely this.

And calling it man hate to talk about it is a huge part of the problem.

AntArcticFox · 24/01/2018 11:02

"Identity" politics = road to hell imo.

Caprinihahahaha · 24/01/2018 11:02

Don’t be silly

There is a shocking lack of understanding being exhibited by some on here.
I know some astonishingly fabulous men including my DH and DSs
That does not blind me to the problem that society has with violence, sexism, stalking, rape, wage gaps - the presidents club charity dinner

Men in societt are a problem and whining ‘not all men’ is part of the problem

AntArcticFox · 24/01/2018 11:04

Lack of understanding or a different world view perhaps.

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 11:05

No. Lack of understanding.

Caprinihahahaha · 24/01/2018 11:08

Definitely lack of understanding

ShotsFired · 24/01/2018 11:08

Oh good grief is there some wilful misunderstanding going on here. Why, I have no idea....

Nobody has ever said the class of ALL MEN are criminals.

But of the class of ALL CRIMINALS, the vast majority are, in fact, men. That is just hard statistics, not a feeling, not a guess, not an assumption.

Same with "Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men", because given the legal definition of rape in E&W Law: "According to the law, rape occurs when one person penetrates another with their penis without the consent of the person being penetrated"

bellasuewow · 24/01/2018 11:09

Men should not get a medal just for behaving themselves like decent human beings. I have never read anything about men being evil. I think the debate about men is balanced and long overdue. Male violence and sexual violence is unacceptably high in all societies. I think most men would agree with this and that there is a crisis in manhood. Don’t stifle that debate by being in denial op. Let men better themselves by being open and honest about the causes of male dysfunction and the solutions.

ShastaTrinity · 24/01/2018 11:10

when you read the viciousness and pettiness on this forum, from female posters or posters who claim to be female, I can't check to be fair, you should realise that the men vs women "war" is bullshit.

It's scary that some little girls (or boys even) will be raised by people brainwashing them with such nonsense. There's no us vs them!

LadyOfTheCanyon · 24/01/2018 11:11

Out of my closest friends, 6 couples have exclusively a son/sons. I have noticed that their opinions are almost exactly the same as the OPs. My friends who have girls, or boys and girls don't seem to think this way.

Their opinions on Trans rights ( I don't want to derail the thread but I find it notable) are almost identical - that men should be able to do whatever they want at the expense of women's rights. It seems to come from a "BUT HE'S MY SON!" place which doesn't seem to be a thing with my friends who have girls.

I can only assume that it is also the parent's views that need a wobble - if you inherently think " It's a man's world" with all the attendant privilege that comes with that, then you are probably more likely to feel this about your sons. It's a subtle, insidious view that is very hard to fight against, in my opinion. Most people don't even realise how accepting they are of male privilege, it's that much of the bedrock of society.

illustrious · 24/01/2018 11:12

YABU. I don't hate men. I have great relationships with many and have a son. IT IS a problem however that men in my workplace doing the same job are paid more than me. Get better promotional opportunities than me because they are men. IT IS a problem that I have to teach my daughter how to be safe in the world because some MEN will be a danger to her. That when she reaches adolescence, or perhaps even before some MEN will start catcalling her and saying things that may scare and confuse her. That I will have to explain to my little boy one day that the pornography he's seeing where women are passive and having things done to them by MEN ( sometimes groups of men) isn't realistic, and isn't how sex is in the real world. Isn't what women want.
I will try to bring my son up to cope with and avoid the toxic masculinity that seems to be causing so many societal problems.
And TBH posts like the OP's with it's 'poor men/boys' tone doesn't do anything to convince me that things will change anytime soon for the better.

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 11:17

you should realise that the men vs women "war" is bullshit.

I have never once seen anyone say there is a war between men and women.

Calling out male violence is not anything like implying it's "them vs us".

  1. are you denying there is an issue with male violence?
  2. do you realise male violence also affects men?
HesterShaw · 24/01/2018 11:18

Sorry OP, but I don't think you understand the issue, which has been described at length again and again and again.

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 11:19

In any case I see this is OP's first post so I can't imagine this was written for any other reason than being goady tbh.

ShastaTrinity · 24/01/2018 11:20

IT IS a problem that I have to teach my daughter how to be safe in the world because some MEN will be a danger to her.

As a mother, you shouldn't be a be more realistic and open-minded about the real world, pretending that male are the danger is naive at best
www.news24.com/You/Archive/14-year-old-girl-falls-prey-to-vicious-bullying-attack-in-video-posted-to-facebook-20170728
One example among so many. Your kids are just as likely to be bullied by female than male to say the least.

People can be a danger for your children, not evil men as opposed to angelic girls. I would never raise my girls letting them believe they are born victims. They are not!

Caprinihahahaha · 24/01/2018 11:23

Shasta

That’s a staggeringly stupid argument

Suggesting that men are overwhelmingly more likely to pose a threat to a woman than the other way around can’t be countered by cherry picking any story where a female is the protagonist

Fitbitironic · 24/01/2018 11:24

I see plenty of pleasant, decent, boys and men, but I also see some with a strong sense of unchallenged and unacknowledged male privilege.

And

The really depressing thing is that men could change everything for the better today if they wanted to. It would be really easy. But they don't seem to want to.

The guy I ended up marrying is a pretty intelligent and (I would have said) decent guy. Yet even he has had his moments of disrespectful behaviour towards me as his gf/wife/mother of his children. All based on that ingrained entitled and misogynistic attitude, which I was previously unaware of and hadn't been in evidence before. I think I'm trying to say that it's extremely well ingrained in the male population as a whole if a previously lovely guy would use 'well that's what men do' and 'everyone (male) does it' as an excuse and expect that to be plausible explanation.

Caprinihahahaha · 24/01/2018 11:24

It’s also not raising women to be victims, to make them aware of the fact that they don’t have to put up with crap

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 11:24

shasta

do you deny that male violence is a problem?

Your daughter can be raised to believe she's not a victim all you like. That still won't protect her from all the ways she is naturally disadvantaged in our society because it is a patriarchy.

To coin a phrase - you can't identify your way out of oppression.

Caprinihahahaha · 24/01/2018 11:25

Having to worry about the hurt feeling of some man who might not be a threat - ‘because mummy said not all men and I can’t be assuming’ is a terrible lesson to teach our daughters

CrazyExIngenue · 24/01/2018 11:29

Your kids are just as likely to be bullied by female than male to say the least.

I think the vast majority of women and men who talk openly and honestly about the problems with male violence also talk openly and honestly about problems with bullying and female aggression. I certainly know that I'm raising my DD to be aware of the problems of falling in with the "mean girl" crowd, the same as I'm raising my DS to be aware of the issues associated with toxic masculinity.

ShastaTrinity · 24/01/2018 11:33

do you deny that male violence is a problem?
I don't deny that VIOLENCE is a problem.

By refusing to raise my daughters as victims, and showing them that they are NOT as a disadvantage (I live in the UK, not in Saudi Arabia), I am preparing them to expect the same things and same choices than their brothers, and to get the same opportunities.

They know they can't play the female card, they can do just as well, and they will.

restbiterepeat · 24/01/2018 11:33

A kind husband, a kind father, a kind brother and three kind sons.

But facts are facts.

The inconvenient truth is that men, as a class, are violent. And this can be seen across the ages, across the world, across class and race and politics.

PecanPieFace · 24/01/2018 11:34

I don't deny that VIOLENCE is a problem.

Most violence is committed by males. You think that's just a random coincidence, and nothing whatsoever to do with toxic masculinity?

Your daughter is still at risk of being killed by a male partner or former partner whether she lives in Saudi Arabia or not. I suppose you think that if women just stood up to abusive men and said "I AM NOT A VICTIM", it wouldn't happen?