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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

710 replies

churchoflego · 24/01/2018 09:55

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

OP posts:

sanesera · 28/01/2018 07:36

I came here to comment on men as a class but of course, someone decides to shift matters to black men. Argh

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 07:38

It was you said that Afro Caribbean boys commit the majority of knife crime in London. I have no idea whether that is true or not.

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 07:42

I don't understand why you're aargh? My sons are (young) men. They also happen to be men of colour. Why should unfairly classing them together (based on statistics) be viewed by most fair-minded people as racist in one context of their lives but not sexist in another?

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 07:48

BertrandRussell
It was you said that Afro Caribbean boys commit the majority of knife crime in London.
It is a fact. But does that make it fair to treat all Afro-Caribbean boys as a 'class'. By the definition of class given by a pp - the only "characteristic they share" (in the eyes of a racist police officer) is the colour of their skin.

Does that make it far to treat everyone sharing that characteristic with equal suspicion?

Out of interest, Bertrand, what is your definition of prejudice?

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 07:49

If you had limited resources for a preventative measure do you think it is a good idea to target resources where they are most needed?

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 07:52

For example, the school my ds attended had a problem with boy’s literacy. So a specific programme was devised to try to change that. My ds is a high achiever in all “wordy” subjects. The presence of the programme did not mean that he can’t read.......

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 07:52

Yes that is exactly the positive feeling my sons have whenever they are out in London. They bask in the warm glow of people like you literally "classing them together with violent criminals" means that they will be targeted for greater resources.

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 07:54

I was trying to move to something less emotive. But hey ho.

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:01

You haven't shared with us your definition of prejudice.

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 08:06

No, I haven’t. Because it is irrelevant in this context.

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:09

makeourfuture · 28/01/2018 08:14

Why is nobody searching white man in his Saville Road suit to see if he is pilfering the company pension fund?

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:20

It will be interesting to see if the OP comes back. The crux of her point appeared to be *Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to...[whatever]"

This is the first principle of tackling any kind of prejudices. Bertrand has suddenly become reticent, so here's a definition of prejudice

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. 2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. 3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding an ethnic, racial, social, or religious group

If we oppose prejudice against women, then we should extend the same opposition to prejudice against men. I believe this was the intent of this thread.

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 08:26

“Why is nobody searching white man in his Saville Road suit to see if he is pilfering the company pension fund?”

Well, if you wanted for statistical purposes to create a class of people who do all the pilfering from company pension funds.........

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:30

Well, if you wanted for statistical purposes to create a class of people who do all the pilfering from company pension funds

Or you could simply check and ensure the pension trustees and auditors are doing their job.

makeourfuture · 28/01/2018 08:37

Well, if you wanted for statistical purposes to create a class of people who do all the pilfering from company pension funds

I've suggested just that!

People tell me they would just leave the country.

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 08:39

So do see literally no value in any analysis of the type of people who commit particular sorts of crimes/are under represented in particular areas/ do worse than expected educationally......? You object to all targeted interventions?

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:42

The person on the the board of Carillion responsible for protecting pensions was ....???
www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2018/jan/15/blame-the-board-for-the-carillion-collapse-it-was-deluded

FrancinePefko · 28/01/2018 08:45

You object to all targeted interventions
No. I object to people like you literally classing my sons together with violent criminals. That makes you prejudiced.

makeourfuture · 28/01/2018 08:46

You object to all targeted interventions?

Are you asking if I would be upset if the rich were constantly detained and searched? Give me a few minutes to look for some examples of that.

BertrandRussell · 28/01/2018 08:59

My son is a member of the class that commits most violent crime and practically all sexual crimes. He is a member of the class that under achieves in literacy at school. He is a member of the class that commits most white collar crime. He is a member of a class that is less likely to seek help for mental health issues.

Because I know this, I can think about how to help hm manage his relationships and sexual encounters so that he becomes part of a world where men are not “as a class” committing most violent and sexual crimes. I can also find ways to help him look after his mental health in a way that men “as a class” don’t.

candycandles · 28/01/2018 09:10

Some of the ideas from fellow women are depressing.

We should teach our girls to not be entitled?
We should teach them to be assertive and not play nice?
If we levelled the playing field then boys might not hate girls so much?

To be honest I even struggle with the "not my son/husband/dad/uncle" argument. Statistically at some point, it might very well have been the well thought of member of your family. My ex's mum would swear to the high heavens that her son was respectful and not violent, didn't stop him domestically and sexually assaulting me or the emotional abuse to my children (both young girls).

Men are, as proven by statistics shown on this thread, committing violence towards women, and indeed other men. It is a problem. And whilst it is not "All Men" it's enough of them to be a problem that needs to be looked at and attempts at resolution made. I cannot see any positive motive for the NAMALT approach, and despair with anyone who uses it to disregard the facts.

candycandles · 28/01/2018 09:12

I should add for balance, I am equally horrified at the attitudes from men on this subject. I just cannot understand it from women more, when it is a FACT that we suffer daily from the discrimination towards us.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 28/01/2018 09:13

What I meant was that despite men being more likely to be a victim of male violence than women, there are not internet forums buzzing with this information and clamouring to stop it

Oh ok

So instead of saying

Male violence needs to be stopped

We should be saying

Male violence against people but especially men should be stopped

makeourfuture · 28/01/2018 09:14

He is a member of the class that commits most white collar crime.

Hey, please tell him that just because it ain't illegal, it ain't necessarily right.

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