to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

Francine here, just for you, is a definition of class analysis:

Class analysis is research in sociology, politics and economics from the point of view of the stratification of the society into dynamic classes. It implies that there is no universal or uniform social outlook, rather that there are fundamental conflicts that exist inherent to how society is currently organized.

Pumper, I think I've been pretty clear in my posts and have used general examples from my life for context. I think you may be deliberately taking my words and intentions out of context and are trying to make me out to be the enemy.

I'd be interested to know what you do in your focus on male violence.
Also I see you've gone for the 113 (female victims) number again instead of the total in your latest post...

OntheList i am not victim blamey. nearly all of us have been sexually assualted or harassed at some point in our lives. how can a victim blame victims????

I also posted that men should be taught to respect women. but it is harder for me to say what or how to teach a man or boy as i am not male and do not know how men think? i do not have sons yet.

ForestDad if you were female they would probably be nicer to you, sadly! i do not see any women getting picked on here on this thread.

My husband is a different race to me. I am absolutely not a racist. I am asking why someone saying for example Irish Catholics as a class.... would quite rightly and justifiably be condemned and vilified as a bigot
but it is perfectly acceptable to say men as a class?

Why are men a "class" but say Protestants, Poles, Romany, Disabled etc, etc not?

Because men ARE a class. Just as women are a class. It's just as ok to say MEN as a CLASS produce sperm, as it is to say WOMEN as a CLASS produce ova.

It is a description of reality.

ForestDad

Also I see you've gone for the 113 (female victims) number again instead of the total in your latest post...

Em, where? My post to Francine had all the stats on it.

It was not clear you were taking examples from your own life, you were talking about how statistically you’re more likely to be injured in an accident, and then you said ‘efforts focussed elsewhere for bigger impact’

For me, in order to stop male violence, I don’t allow violence around me, my children are not allowed to play-fight for example. I acknowledge current statistics on male violence rather than minimising or deflecting. I work with children and teenagers, and I tell them about violence stats. I don’t stand for any violence from them either. I’m involved in a number of campaigns (I’m afraid you’ll just have to take my word for that, I won’t be giving any more detail) on ending violence. And I give money to women’s charities even though men are victims too.

pumper
Why are you ignoring the stats?
I will repeat, the stats of male violence against women are appalling. I fully accept them and totally condemn this behaviour. I want perpetrators to be brought to justice and suffer the full consequences of their despicable actions.

What does "as a class" mean?

As a group. Stastistically.

how can a victim blame victims????

A victim can absolutely blame victims. By saying that they should do X to not be victims. Basically laying the blame for being a victim, on the victim.

Idontdowindows
Because men ARE a class. Just as women are a class.

Are Jews a class?

Cheers mental. Glad it's not just me seeing the CAPS and low level swearing coming my way just for stating some facts.
The point that the others are trying to make is that because in an ideal world people shouldn't be assaulted, then giving advice to travel in pairs, pepper spray etc. is putting the emphasis on the victim to prevent the harm, rather than the guilty party. Sorry if you know this line of thought already.
I'm a pumpkin, off to bed.

Why are men a "class" but say Protestants, Poles, Romany, Disabled etc, etc not?

Well they are a class, depending on what you are talking about? Protestants as a class are religious. Etc.

Whilst

Men as a class are responsible for nearly all violence.

OntheList perhaps I am missing something? i thought victim blaming was saying things like "it is their fault they were raped/harassed/assaulted because of what they were wearing/how drunk they are/they were flirting etc" all i was saying is that we need to keep our girls safe from attacks by taking care of ourselves. if the rapey men did their part of course, we would have no need to, but it is a crap world and the rapey men don't do their bit.

i'm a pumpkin, off to bed me too Forest Good night

good night all!

Pumper, thanks for that reply.

I was referring to your post from 2344 with respect to the 113, cross post I think.
Pumpkin time for me, night.

OntheList
Wait a minute, so you're now saying "class" does in fact mean "group, statistically"

So if any statistic shows a majority from a particular group - we should helpfully refer to them as a class?

So by your argument, you could say that black people as A CLASS commit more stabbings than any other racial group in the UK

Is that acceptable?

And for safety, white people must assume that all Afro-Caribbean youths have the potential to stab you.

And for safety, passengers must assume that all Muslim taxi drivers have the potential to be paedophiles

Is that helpful?

It's helpful in the sense that it's clear you're a racist with an agenda.

I think the poster was saying that if it's ok to say all men and potentially violent it should be ok to say the above statements, not that she thinks/agrees with them.

ForestDad my post at 23.44 has all the stats on it, if you read further than the first line. All the male violence stats.

Francine, you're derailing.

Your pretense at not understanding class just serves to direct people's energies towards performing labour for you instead of talking about the subject at hand.

Nobody on this thread owes you an education. If you cannot understand what we are talking about, go educate yourself.

Yet again I shall state, I have no problem referring to any kind of group as a class if they do overwhelmingly commit the most of whatver crime.

Not sure how many other ways I can answer the same question (with various races added in)

Pumperthepumper

Francine here, just for you, is a definition of class analysis:

"Class analysis is research in sociology, politics and economics from the point of view of the stratification of the society into dynamic classes. It implies that there is no universal or uniform social outlook, rather that there are fundamental conflicts that exist inherent to how society is currently organized"

What?

OntheList she’s been told already, she’ll ask again in a minute but pick a different religion or minority group.

OnTheList
*Yet again I shall state, I have no problem referring to any kind of group as a class"

I've heard you. I understand that you have no problem calling any group a class. But you still have not explained how a class differs from a group.

Francine it means you don’t look at the wide picture in order to analyse social issues - we don’t say ‘all people commit crimes’ - but instead break that down into different classes to see how those classes interact.

Idontdowindows

Nobody on this thread owes you an education. If you cannot understand what we are talking about, go educate yourself

You've just about summed up why I stay away from the Feminist thread on MN. If you dare to question the hegemony you get told to go and read 27 books.