To put up with a shouty husband?

[FindingItReallyHard]

My husband and I have been together for 15 years and I cannot imagine life without him. We have a toddler and a baby. He adores us all. Toddler is exhausting but her whinging can be minimised if handled well. Baby is a four months.

So my husband has a temper- he says he cannot help it and it's the only way he can deal with things. For example, pre kids, he would be doing some diy that didn't go well and would shout and swear and tell me to fuck off if I suggested something or told him to calm down. This resulted in him smashing things or putting his fist through a door on several occasions.

He is quite impatient and also hates lots of noise- says his brain wont function. So if one or two of the kids are crying he might make a brief attempt to resolve it before exploding into a sweary shouty fit. Never physical. Him and the toddler seem to spiral into shouting/crying very quickly. Happens most mornings when she wakes everyone up at 5am.

He works sooo many hours (self employed with new business) and, when he comes home, he goes online and the toddler will be talking to him which he often ignores or ends up getting cross and, for example, slamming down the iPad and muttering or shouting to the toddler that it's all about her or something along those lines.

We are both exhausted, have very little space in our 2 bed flat and no spare money. I just wish he didn't argue and swear at the kids. Posting now as Friday he kicked off as toddler was whinging and I flipped shouting at him to get a grip and leave the room. Problem is I had both kids next to me and I am mortified that I shouted infront of them. I feel I am no better than him. I think tjings will get better once DC2 is bigger as it had improved as DC1 got bigger and before second baby arrived to shake things up....
Aibu to accept that this is just him and things get better as DC get older?

Is like this with colleagues? Clients?

Or just his wife and children?

Most (not all) of the men in my family were like this (son learns from father), but it was always explained away as"oh yes when he is terrible he is terrible. BUT, when he is good he is the best person/father in the world!!!". In the mean time us children continuely were frightened, walking on egg shells, trying not to provoke him into his next petty rage over nothing. Such a crap but lasting memory from my childhood.

I think the scales are starting to fall from your eyes, but more need to go. It must be a scary realisation, but it's not just you putting up with it, your children are exposed to it and your eldest has already been on the receiving end of it. You can't pin your hopes on it getting better in a couple of years. Unless you are expecting your older child to learn to tiptoe on eggshells around him and your baby to not go through any typical toddler behaviour.

Can it be a coincidence that it's usually men who are the aggressive ones, for whom allowances are made because "that's just how he is" and he still gets to be "a great dad". Bar seems so low for fathers yet so high for mothers. Funny that

Pengggwn

*You do not 'spiral into shouting and screaming with a toddler'. The adult shouts, the toddler screams. Because the adult has frightened the toddler.

Your DH needs help, or you need to get your kids away from him. Shouting at a two year old until they are screaming is not acceptable.*

I 100% agree, that will be scary for a toddler. My DH used to get very shouty, though thankfully he never punched the walls or swore at our DDs.

DD1 (now 8) has serious behavioural issues, which would test anyone's patience, I get cross with her myself. But we've learned new strategies now for dealing with her behaviour (through help from Adoption Support) and the instances of him shouting have gone down considerably.

Also, he was really trying to manage her behaviour and getting frustrated, it sounds like your DH is just wanting your DD to go away, which is very concerning. Does he interact with her at all? Positive interaction could really help here, maybe reading to her or sitting on the floor joining in her games. Or taking them to the park as a family.

Anger management is needed, as it clearly was an issue pre kids, and maybe parenting classes? Toddlers can be very tricky, especially if your expectations are unrealistic.

OP you NEED to protect your children. Show them that you are putting them first. Your H is emotionally abusive to them, but you are letting them down too by not removing them from this situation. If you don't fix this they will resent you as they get older, I speak from experience here.

Either he has to stop this behaviour, or you have to leave him, or you have to accept your children are going to grow up frightened and anxious all the time. And that has significant impacts on their health and life expectancy as adults.

Think about this. Do the right thing.

To the pp who's husband threw food in their daughters face, that's disgusting. It makes me very sad that so many women and children are subjected to this shit

Your husband is an abuser.

Why are you subjecting your child to an abuser?

My father was like this. Even after my mum left him he had EOW access and I had panic attacks on the way to his house. The memories of his aggression dominate my childhood, and it's hard to remember anything about my youngest years beyond feeling afraid all the time. I grew up to self harm and had a string of abusive relationship before I finally got some therapy and broke the cycle. I still suffer with depression and anxiety, but my DP is the calmest most patient gentle man I've ever known and it makes me very happy to know our children will have a better life than I did. It's not about you anymore or how much you love your DH and want things to work, it's about your children. You have to protect them from this abuse.

Sorry to be blunt but he sounds like a shit dad. What kind of environment is that for a child? He can't even give the toddler 5 minutes of his time. Your kids are going to be living in fear of him when they're old enough to understand his stupid childish temper. He needs professional help and a lesson on how to treat people.

From what I have read about child development, being brought up in a stressful environment raises children's cortisol levels and for babies and toddlers cortisol levels can then be set too high in them for life and they are permanently stressed out and anxious, always looking for threats.

I grew up with an (otherwise lovely) Father like this. I subsequently have severe depression and have done since I was 5 and thinking suicidal thoughts every day, severe anxiety, hideously low self esteem, am rubbish at relationships, went completely off the rails as a teen and used to cut myself to cope with the fear of living with this man. I also had awful panic attacks and was labelled a hypochondriac by my (kind and caring religious school!) And haven't really led a normal life as I have zero confidence and am really wary of men. And that's just me. My sister's are fucked up too (eating disorders not daring to have children) due to out horrible, albeit comfortable middle class, childhood. There is no way I'd settle for this for my daughter or myself.

If it is the case that this man is self-employed because his temper makes him unemployable, then there is actually more hope of him being able to change. Anger management has a better chance of working for someone who is indiscriminately angry ie shouts and throws things about whenever he is thwarted or frustrated. Because this is an issue of impulse control and he can learn better behaviour patterns.
It doesn't always work, but it is much more likely to be fixable than the man who is 'lovely' to strangers/colleagues/male friends but terrorizes his female partner and his kids. Because the second type of man truly believes that he is entitled to bully his family, because they need to obey him and defer to him; they are his property. Men like that, the only thing you can do is to leave, take the children and restrict his access to them as much as possible.

My dad was like this. High stress job and had very very poor skills for dealing with stress and frustration. Shouting at us and my mum was one of the ways he dealt with it. When I was an older child and teenager I used to scream back, throw things, dare him to hit me (sometimes he did).

I would not say I grew up afraid of him in the way that many people think of children growing up with abuse will. So for years I would have thought, oh, it didn’t affect me badly at all. But it did. I still get nervous and panicky if anyone around me is angry or stressed. I spent most of my 20s wandering in and out of shit relationships, because I’d been conditioned to think that angry/sulky man = appease, calm, walk on eggshells. Or sometimes, I would shout back. But I always thought it was something to put up with and something to deal with, something that was specifically my job to deal with, because that’s how I grew up.

I also developed an awful temper myself and it’s something I have had to work very hard on controlling around my own DC. But I HAVE done that work and I don’t scream and shout. I am determined they won’t grow up like I did and won’t end up passing this on to their children too. That took me years to get to and I’m so glad I didn’t have children when I was younger, when I was still justifying my own anger to myself as “oh I can’t help it, that’s just the way I am.”

I love both my parents still, I have learned a lot of good things from them, but this lesson I learned from them about how relationships work and how anger works wasn’t good. It has taken me many many MANY years to unlearn it and I’m still not there.

Please do better by your children.

And YY to thethoughtfox the brain doesn't fuse together properly or something. I get so down and bitter about our childhood but understand my DM was scared and trapped and trying to do the best she could.

My DP's dad was like this and they all still hate him for it (have to pretend they don't though as he is arabic, respect for father etc) He is much calmer these days but even the slightest bit of anger, moan, grumpiness from him results in his kids reacting badly as they are expecting him to blow up like he always did. It makes family gatherings tense. DP has done it a couple of times (learned behaviour!) but I put a stop to it by telling him our kids will hate him like he hates his dad. He just walks off now when he feels angry, but mostly smokes weed to make him chilled. His mum was a huge calming influence while growing up but he does resent her for never leaving his dad.

My ex was like that. Either shouting when she was angry or if we were in the car, turning the radio up to max.

No kids (thank fuck) but I was a wreck when I got out of the relationship. Couldn't be near people with loud voices, and I remember being in my parents' car & having to ask them to turn the radio off.

Thank you for the replies, too many to respond to individually. Yes they are hard to read but I expected that. I've been wanting to ask people in real life "does your DP shout etc?" but I can't talk about it.
sadie yes I am so ashamed about how things are at home. Also ashamed with myself. After Friday, i am afraid that this is just becoming 'our household'. I never ever used to shout but I became so angry at him for having no patience. It didn't occur to me that I have adapted my behaviour over the years to avoid his tantrums- something much less possible when looking after young children.
rizlett thank you for being so understanding. Everybody speaks as if it is obvious but it isn't/wasn't to me. Now with the children, I am questioning his behaviour more.
Yes he has lost his temper with grown men before. And yes he adores us and I could give a million examples but that's not the point of the thread. He does read stories to or DC and cuddle them and Friday was the first time he approached us and apologised directly to our toddler for shouting and swearing. Again this is another thing that has alarmed me- I don't know if he apologised expecting me to do the same because I got angry too or if he realised he had crossed a line.
Easy to say stop making excuses and leave but it feels very confusing from where I'm sat.

I grew up in a household where there was an awful lot of shouting and I hate it to this day, it makes me so anxious. It's a horrible environment for children. Can't be pleasant for you either though.

Oh, also I plan to talk to him when it's nice and calm. Hopefully this week. Maybe highlight some of things that I am beginning to realise. Ask how he feels about it and suggest that we come up with a plan. Along the lines of if it happens again the he/we need to try and find some sort of professional help (guess that's a whole new thread, i wouldn't know how/where to find someting- google probably). See how he responds to that.
Also to add, I have previously asked him not to swear at me or children, I've told him it upsets me and is not okay.

From what I have read about child development, being brought up in a stressful environment raises children's cortisol levels and for babies and toddlers cortisol levels can then be set too high in them for life and they are permanently stressed out and anxious, always looking for threats.

This is so true. How do I know? I grew up in a household that was full of anger and shouting and am living with the effects now. I'm in my fifties and it's been decades since I lived with my parents.

OP, your partner shouts because he chooses to. Anger is a choice. I bet he doesn't shout and throw things when people irritate him in a shop or at work: he saves that bullying, abusive behaviour for your children, who are too small to defend themselves or remove themselves from the toxic environment he is creating around them.

Oh, also I plan to talk to him when it's nice and calm. Hopefully this week. Maybe highlight some of things that I am beginning to realise. Ask how he feels about it and suggest that we come up with a plan. Along the lines of if it happens again the he/we need to try and find some sort of professional help

Don't wait for it to happen again. Tell him he needs to find that help now, right now.

I have previously asked him not to swear at me or children, I've told him it upsets me and is not okay.

And yet he's done it again. He doesn't care that it upsets you, or that it's wrong: he just does it.

Think about that before you tell anyone what a great dad he is.

You say "if it happens again" but you know that it definitely will. I'm so sorry OP and I've been there. My ex grew up with a "shouty" Dad and what a surprise, my ex turned into a "shouty" husband. His whole family excuses it as "just the one thing about him is his temper, otherwise he's a true diamond" - as if it was something as small as "the one bad thing about him is he hates cutting his hair or wearing smart shoes". It's not just one thing, it's everything. They're abusive. Your dc will definitely be affected, as you've heard from others, whether it's being anxious or whether they grow up to be abusive partners too. If you don't love yourself enough to say he has to seek treatment, you know you want to do it for your dc or you wouldn't be posting here. And just from someone who has been there, life is sooooo much better without being scared of someone shouting all the time. Good luck.

That's not good enough and you know it.
Do better by your children.

Don't wait for him to start shouting again. Tell him it is not acceptable, he is damaging his children and to sort himself out now.

This is the thing. It will happen again. Guarantee it. As for seeking help it’s a great idea in theory however the person needs to want to change their ways. And he’s been like this for years and you still chose to marry him and start a family. He’s reduced his own child who is a tiny toddler to a screaming wreck countless times and the penny hasn’t dropped for him. Good chance it never will. You could spend the rest of your days waiting for him to make changes to his shitty abusive behaviour. And that in my experience is soul destroying in itself. You will be gutted in the future when it’s You picking up the pieces and dealing with the damage it has done to your children.

Not if it happens again because you know it will. You need to talk to him about how he is going to stop it from happening.

Anger management, counselling. I would (and I'm deadly serious) tell him that you and the children are leaving unless he makes active steps to get help. This is an utterly toxic environment for your children. You chose this but they have no choice.