To feel that you cant talk about being proud to bf?

[TwilightRiver]

Just to start I am not trying to be goady, and not wanting this to be bf vs ff.

I respect everyones right to choose how to feed their baby.

I haven been bf my lo for 5 months and am very proud of that fact. I have had very little problems and been fortunate enough to have avoided mastitis and thrush so far but its still been so bloody hard.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I also find that people find its's acceptable to make comments to a mum in regard to bf. 'Maybe theyre not getting enough' "They need water' 'no one else gets to feed, when you giving a bottle'. They wouldn't dream of making such comments to a mother whos ff or criticize her for her choice.

This is also extended to medical professionals. Here ff babies are weighed when born and again when transfered to hv. No weigh ins with midwife on return from hospital. where as bf babies are weighed on return fron hispital then 5 days then weekly. Apparently this is because they know how much ff babies are getting. Its like they are going back on the whole 'breast is best' and expecting you to fail. Or should be the same policy regardless of method of feeding.

I'd like to add my own experience.
Formula fed DD1 by choice,
Formula and breast fed DD2,
Breast fed DD3,
Tried to breast feed DD4 but it was a spectacular failure.

@Rumpledfaceskin That's really sad to hear. I had piles of leaflets etc pushed on me which were all about promoting the benefits of bf, despite the fact I'd said from the start that it was my intention to bf, so I didn't need to be convinced.

I can't imagine what it must be like for those women who really wanted to bf but couldn't.

But it is true that the majority of babies in the UK are FF so I would say that a very high % of those do so through choice and not because they couldn't. It is the cultural norm in this country. And it's no wonder - I was asked by a colleague how I would be feeding my baby when I was pregnant. I said I wanted to bf. She looked at another female colleague and said something along the lines of "Oh I just couldn't, could you??" The tone of her voice and look on her face implied it was something seedy! What's worse is I would never have dreamed of belittling her for her choice to ff!

@speakout
Breastfeeding is the norm around me and is overwhelmingly regarded as positive. That's my point.

Nobody really cares how anyone else fed their baby In real life. Im glad you feel proud of it and you're perfectly entitled to feel that way. I feel very proud of myself for how I'm handling motherhood for various reasons but i don't go around shouting about it irl.

Accrual sadly I think there really is a class divide. It’s interesting speaking to my mum who had us in a very middle class area with NCT coffee mornings and she didn’t know a single parent who ff. she’s astounded that I only have a handful of friends who b/f who I met at a breastfeeding group. We don’t even have NCT round here and she just can’t get her head around that! What’s astonishing is that the attitudes of hp’s differ so much depending on which part of the country they’re working in as the nhs as a whole is meant to support b/f.

It's the pride thing that riles people up. It's more 'I've managed to do something really hard' and for those people that have struggled or have failed at it, or who have not chosen that option there is implied criticism.

This is interesting, because no one would say the same for athletes who have achieved things in their sport.

No one would deny their right to be proud, despite a) some people are physically unable to do it b) others may have put more effort in than the person in question but simply don't have the same physical abilities.

Achieving in a sport is a mixture of physical ability, effort put it, support and a dollop of luck. Same as breastfeeding. The stars align better for some than others.

Yet to deny pride in their achievements (for both) seems churlish as it still requires dedication and effort to get there.

Accrual sadly I think there really is a class divide.

I totally agree. At the point of bfing DS I was in leafy north London. Breastfeeding was everywhere.

But the stats show that this is definitely not true of the rest of the country.

I'm now in Ireland and if you think the UK has poor breastfeeding rates, Ireland is much, much worse.

I am so sorry mummabubs that you have also been upset by this thread. Some of the responses by a few posters have been utterly shocking; to be referred to as 'bitter cows' (to quote one poster) is contemptible language to use in a forum which is supposed to be about us supporting each other….precious little evidence of that on this thread.

I don't feel one bit 'ashamed' of being unable to bf, any more than I feel 'ashamed' at having a Caesarian rather than a natural birth.

Laiste - thanks so much for your post.

Ethelfleda that’s exactly the kind of attitude I’ve had. There’s something wrong or disgusting about it. I did have a friend who b/f her 3rd having previously been against b/f only to have loads of pressure piled on her by other friends to stop b/c she couldn’t go out with them as baby wouldn't take a bottle. She ended up saying she regretted feeding him. I thought that was so sad, especially as he was born quite poorly and really thrives on her milk. It’s very interesting to hear how different attitudes are in different areas!

“a few posters have been utterly shocking; to be referred to as 'bitter cows' (to quote one poster) is contemptible language”

Of course it is. I didn’t see that post. I hope you reported it.

Tbh, with #1 7 yrs ago there was little BF support. On telling the MW I wanted to she told me to have a tub of formula in the cupboard for when I needed it.

With #2 I had to fight tooth and nail to get the help I needed at the time, and in the end had to push on without it.

With #3 no-one has mentioned it. The only people I know in real life who exclusively feed past the first few weeks are in the home ed community, so of hippy inclinations anyway.

Why on earth would you want to have a conversation with formula feeding friends about being proud to breastfeed? Where could that conversation possibly go? It does sound very goady. By all means be proud of yourself - no need to boast chat about it though.

I assume the “bitter cows” remark has been deleted? It doesn’t show up on a search.

@flowersWB Spot on.
You wouldn't mention how proud you were of your marriage to a newly divorced person or the purchase of your new house to someone in mortgage arrears.
If you want approval talk to your OH or mum who might know more about your ups and downs of getting breastfeeding established.

Moaning cows appears on page 1. 17:20

Right. I’ve reported it. As you should have. Rather than bringing it up hours later as if it is in any typical of posts in this thread.

I think that there is actually a difference between the title of this post and the content of the post itself and that is key to how people feel about the post.

The title talks about being "proud" and while personally I think anyone can be proud of whatever THEY feel is an achievement for THEM, I do agree that announcing your pride could upset some people (i don't think it should - i firmly believe that people's feelings are their own responsibility and I hate anything that censors women's voices).

The post itself talks about merely conversing about breastfeeding - and this is a whole different kettle of fish. Both the OP and many others on this thread have highlighted that the minute they start to talk about anything to do with breastfeeding they are shut down, unsupported and made to feel like a member of the breastapo. Not being able to discuss breastfeeding with friends or family who have chosen or have been forced to formula feed is hard and isolating and can lead to stopping bfing early, fractured friendships and even in extreme cases post-natal depression. Feeling like you have to apologise, downplay or hide your ability or choice to bf in order to not offend someone is ridiculous.

It has been mentions a gajillion times in this post -

Someone else's choices, experiences, expressions of their feelings are not a mirror to your inadequacies - they are not a judgement or a standard. Let women talk about whatever they want to without shutting them down with guilt. Unless someone specifically tells you that what you are doing is wrong - maybe just assume they are talking about themselves and not you.

Livingtothefull - it was me who you were talking about when you said someone barked at you and told you to leave the thread. I'm sorry - I don't want to silence anyone. I was actually concerned about your feelings. I know that I have to stay away from certain topics that make me anxious or upset - i never expect other people not to talk about these things, I remove myself from the conversation. I am sorry for your troubles.

Thanks for reporting the post Bertrand. I have to say though that it is not up to me or anyone else to 'police' this thread, I only noticed that particular post today.

And I disagree that it is untypical of the thread….just a few I found without really trying hard:

'So OP be as proud as you like. And ignore all the bitter cows'

'And fwiw I do often think “wow! I fed that human all be myself for those years” when I look at my adult kids as well as the younger ones too. And I lowered my risks of cancer too, and theirs. My boobs rock!' (Nice one there. I so appreciated being told that my DS & I are at higher risk of cancer due to my 'failure' to bf)

'If someone asking for a platform to express their pride in breastfeeding is so triggering or hurtful, perhaps you should skip the breastfeeding posts'.

'moaning cows are jealous'

'Please take your bitterness elsewhere'.

'It's probably down to jealousy or guilt that they didn't bf'

'THEY can, if they want, feel pride that they chose to breastfeed, that they sacrificed their own autonomy and certain freedoms to feed their child' (and the rest of us don't because we're too selfish?)

'I can see your bitterness a mile off'.

TBH if I tried to report every post I objected to I would be here all day.

You have quoted me twice in that post Living and I rally don't think that my posts are at all offensive.

'If someone asking for a platform to express their pride in breastfeeding is so triggering or hurtful, perhaps you should skip the breastfeeding posts'.

'THEY can, if they want, feel pride that they chose to breastfeed, that they sacrificed their own autonomy and certain freedoms to feed their child'

I said both of those things.... within the context of wider discussion and stand by them both. It is pretty shitty to tar me with the same brush as someone calling people "bitter cows" , don't you think?

Livinglife

Just because something makes you feel sad or uncomfortable or anxious, doesn't mean that the person saying it shouldn't have the right to say it. It doesn't mean it is offensive.

I said both of those things.... within the context of wider discussion and stand by them both. It is pretty shitty to tar me with the same brush as someone calling people "bitter cows" , don't you think?

I totally agree with this and don't see anything wrong with MissMouse's comments.

Not being able to discuss breastfeeding with friends or family who have chosen or have been forced to formula feed is hard and isolating and can lead to stopping bfing early, fractured friendships and even in extreme cases post-natal depression.

Out of interest, don't you feel some of this applies to those who ff who are surrounded by family and friends who have all successfully bf? I know my friends don't get it, because they all breastfeed. I don't know anyone who formula feeds that I could talk to about it if I wanted to.