To feel that you cant talk about being proud to bf?

[TwilightRiver]

Just to start I am not trying to be goady, and not wanting this to be bf vs ff.

I respect everyones right to choose how to feed their baby.

I haven been bf my lo for 5 months and am very proud of that fact. I have had very little problems and been fortunate enough to have avoided mastitis and thrush so far but its still been so bloody hard.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I also find that people find its's acceptable to make comments to a mum in regard to bf. 'Maybe theyre not getting enough' "They need water' 'no one else gets to feed, when you giving a bottle'. They wouldn't dream of making such comments to a mother whos ff or criticize her for her choice.

This is also extended to medical professionals. Here ff babies are weighed when born and again when transfered to hv. No weigh ins with midwife on return from hospital. where as bf babies are weighed on return fron hispital then 5 days then weekly. Apparently this is because they know how much ff babies are getting. Its like they are going back on the whole 'breast is best' and expecting you to fail. Or should be the same policy regardless of method of feeding.

I wasn't going to post on this thread again…but I didn't anticipate just how much it was going to upset me. So here goes:

I have always defended other women's right to bf regardless that it wasn't possible for me. To the extent that I have stuck up for other women bfding in public places and argued vociferously against anyone who has complained about it.

I come across a post in the AIBU page, for maximum traffic, talking about being proud to have bf. The poster starts by saying she 'does not mean to be goady'; I feel compelled to read on (maybe against my better judgment but there you go).

The poster says she 'respects everyone's right to choose how to feed their baby'. That immediately hit a raw nerve; I didn't choose anything that happened to me.

The poster then alludes to how hard bf mothers have got it compared to ff (as if we don't get judged?)

I posted on here that for so many incl me it was not a matter of choice, and referred to my own experience. I admit that my post may have been rather OTT emotional; but I don't see why I shouldn't post like everyone else, and refer to my own lived experience on a public thread where responses have been invited.

The response? I am barked at by another poster that I 'shouldn't access threads like this if they are triggering'. And that's it.

Some posters above have pointed out that 'women need to support each other', that is true & I have always tried to do that. I just thought that I would point out how unsupported and disrespected I have felt here.

Maximu 100% agree. B/feeding is a feminist issue. Which is why zezeeks comments are odd. Women can have a body that gives birth, has periods or lactates and still achieve strides in the workplace. The very problem is that some people seem to think she can’t/shouldn’t do both. Women in our society are either body or brain, not both? We’ve completely lost touch with our bodies and mainly lost faith in them. They’re too fat, too pale, to thin, to saggy etc etc. No one views them as an amazing creation that sustains life anymore, they’re something to cover up and be ashamed of in there post birth state. I had to laugh at someone pointing out that formula industry coined the term ‘Brest is best’ in defence of them. Yea they had to think of some serious PR moves after murdering children in the third world. It’s incredible to bring home a little waif of a baby that’s smaller than your forearm and see them grow into a chunky, muscular active crawler and think ‘that is purely from my body’ no one will ever tell me it’s not good enough for society or make me feel ashamed of it again! I’m really really sorry for people who desperately wanted to feel that and couldn’t for whatever reasons, but it’s our society’s job to fix, not individuals.

Completely agree about the feminist issue.

Livingtothefull I’m sorry that you felt you didn’t have a choice in how to feed. I really really am (I’m assuming here you’re someone that wanted to b/f and couldn’t rather than someone who chose to ff). But I’m not going to stop talking about my love of b/feeding on a forum about it that you can chose not to look at. If it were irl, of course No one would start going on about it in front of someone they knew who had wanted to b/feed and couldn’t. That would be tactless at best and cruel at worst. I have said it would be better if this was in the infant feeding section but it’s not. I still don’t think anyone should have to censor their experiences for the fear of upsetting others. I still get a twinge upset when I see a baby the age my first would have been if I hadn’t miscarried. It wasn’t my fault, nature decided, I don’t begrudge them.

I find this whole ‘I have to announce that I’m proud’ of every little thing these days quite weird to be honest. There used to be a time, in the UK at least, when people just cracked on with things and didn’t expect bunting and fanfare. Now everything has to be celebrated and seen as empowering. You’ve had a healthy baby and fed it. Yes that’s great...for you and your family. Nobody else needs to know or probably really cares. When your baby reaches 11, I’m hoping you’ll have got past the urge to announce every achievement otherwise you’ll be one of the mums everyone avoids or hides on Facebook when the SATs results come out

I have many things I’m proud of and DH, DD and I discuss our achievements e.g. we both came from very humble beginnings and are now quite wealthy. I wouldn’t dream of announcing my pride in having achieved wealth publicly. It would be seen as quite vulgar and I would be seen to be lacking self awareness as well as awareness of the fact that not everyone has been as fortunate as me. There is also always an element of luck involved in any achievement which not everyone has had.

"the formula industry and investing BILLIONS in making women doubt their own god given ability to feed their child and convincing health professionals the same is a MASSIVE feminist issue."
This! The narrative had been turned in my parenting lifetime of 22 years from "you'll probably be fine breastfeeding" to "you probably won't be fine"

There is a lot of money to be made out of women's insecurities. Insecurity full stop, but women's in the main.

I find it strange when people announce they are proud of something (anything). Maybe it's my background, maybe it is my age ( I think proud has changed in meaning over the years) but it is something that is alien to me.

Rumpled I sincerely appreciate your post. I want to be clear though about where I am coming from, I would never expect anyone to censor their experiences or not feel free to talk about them…I would hardly be on a forum like this if I did. Every day there are posts about subjects that are potentially sensitive for me, & it never occurs to me that they shouldn't talk about them freely just because I find it difficult; of course they should & I need to deal with my own feelings.

But that is not what I am upset about; this thread is different. The op chose to post here on a subject which is extremely sensitive for many, which even she acknowledged could be 'goady' . She referred to the 'choice' to ff (how does she know her friends 'chose' to ff? Maybe that's why they feel she is getting at them).

TBH I feel that if anyone has been censored, and had their feelings disrespected and shut down it is me. I have literally been told to go away on this thread, as if my being upset by it is an inconvenience. I am not asking for anyone to be silenced, just some mutual respect and compassion.

I bf all of mine and to tbh, I always thought it was the formula feeders who deserved medals. All that measuring/mixing/sterilising heating bloody faff... staggering downstairs in the middle of the night to start boiling kettles..I'd rather roll over and get a boob out.
Not to mention how the weight falls off when they properly hit their stride..
Totally agree with the 'over-sexualisation' of breasts. Have heard bf described as 'gross' (Tits are for the man in your life only obv 🙄)

One thing that is clear from this thread - you may not under any circumstances say anything that may offend a woman who ff her baby. But by all means, say what you want to women who bf. I faced a lot of hurdles and stress establishing bf with my DS - the first couple of weeks were dark times. It's not nice to hear comments such as 'it's like taking a shit' or 'it makes no difference' or 'you were just lucky'

And how is bf'ing ever going to become the cultural norm if we aren't allowed to talk about it??

Where in god's name do you people live that you don't think most people are pro-breastfeeding? I came away from NHS antenatal classes understanding my baby, if formula fed, would be fat, have a low IQ, die of SIDS, get cancer or Type 2 diabetes. I'm the only woman in any of the baby classes I attend who gets a bottle out instead of getting a boob out. I'm the only one of my friends who hasn't successfully breastfed. I get asked by people on tills in shops "are you feeding her yourself?" (because apparently formula feeding is akin to outsourcing feeding your child to a team of holographs.) A health visitor told me when I was worried about my baby seemingly being in pain with trapped wind that this wouldn't have happened if I had breastfed her. The community midwives would have preferred me and my daughter be readmitted to hospital for a third time than me to "give up" and move to formula feeding. One told me it was a good thing that I hadn't had any formula in the house when I was in floods of tears after a wholly sleepless night with a starving, screaming infant because I wouldn't have "held my nerve" if I knew it was in the cupboard. Two hours later we were back in hospital.

Perhaps I need to move to a council estate and become the supposed norm, because I sure as hell am not it where I live now.

Oh, and I forgot the "warning notices" on formula cartons that the contents are a pathetic subsistute for breastfeeding, so I can be reminded of my inadequacy as a woman every time I feed her.

@Livingtothefull I feel the same way. I posted upthread also with my experience (which is emotional for me as I'm still living it) and was utterly shamed by another poster, who then told me if I'd found their post offensive that was my problem, not theirs. I agree with everything you've said and likewise would not want other people to censor their opinions but as it's been pointed out so many times it's about context isn't it. Someone framed it well up post when they said you wouldn't say you felt proud to have given birth vaginally to someone who you knew had an emergency c-section... so equally why is it surprising that some people will find it upsetting when someone says they're proud to have breastfed when for some of us that was a choice that was taken away from us.

AccrualIntentions most women formula feed at some point.

All this antagonism towards ffers is not real.

Very very few babies are not given formula.

I think the op is describing a situation where friends have truly chosen to ff and you feel you have to downplay the merits of breastfeeding for fear of them thinking you’re getting at them. I’ve been in this exact situation and I’ve found myself almost apologising and making excuses for it (like it being cheaper) because if I just said ‘I feel it’s the best thing for me and my baby and it has loads of benefits plus I’m burning tons of calories’ it might be rude. But my friends had chosen to ff and made comments to me about how they ‘don’t know how I can bare to do that, it’s a bit weird etc etc’ so I’m not sure why I felt embarrassed to highlight the great aspects of b/f. Personally I would never discuss it with a friend who I knew had wanted to b/feed and couldn’t. I think the thread has become heated where people have told the op that it doesn’t matter how you feed when it clearly matters to her and lots of women. I can see how these threads are upsetting as I very nearly couldn’t feed and had a week when I resigned myself that it wouldn’t happen for me, so I know I would have found it devastating and would probably have been very upset by some comments on threads like this. So whilst I’d acknowledge that, I still wouldn’t stop discussing the merits of it now I’m older and wiser.

Accrual It’s true in lots of areas breastfeeding is so unusual that hp’s barely bother to push it because they know they’re fighting a lost cause. I think I live in one of those. I wasn’t given any leaflets/info. It was barely mentioned throughout my pregnancy.

I find it strange when people announce they are proud of something (anything).
What a depressing attitude. Everybody has something to be proud of, something they should be proud of. It's a very British attitude to raise an eyebrow when someone dares point out one of their achievements.

There are many things I am proud of, and bf my DC is one of them. I don't see why it should be downplayed and compared to doing a poo.

Living

Given that part of the OP is concerning talking openly about how pride in breast feeding it's very relevant to hear about experiences such as livings and understand why it's a subject which can unintentionally hurt when bought up in a group.

Be proud of whatever - but if you want to 'talk about it' in a group be aware that someone might be sitting smiling and nodding but feeling like utter shit. If you get that vibe it's kinder to stop.

I think that if the OP were to say that she was 'pleased' that she has managed to breastfeed then this would not be such a contentious issue.

It's the pride thing that riles people up. It's more 'I've managed to do something really hard' and for those people that have struggled or have failed at it, or who have not chosen that option there is implied criticism. Sorry, there just is.

BF is obviously better for the baby. If you have been lucky enough to do be able to do it, you should feel bloody lucky. (There was no perseverance in the world that would have made it possible for me to solely bf my DS2.)

However, kids grow, and we find genuine things to be proud of. I look at my DC's friend's and contemporaries and there is no way to tell which were FF and which were BF. But you can tell which ones are kind, or bright, which ones are mean, who is good at sports, or hate their siblings. My point is, you will have bigger fish to fry soon.

Oh, and for the record, I do know some kids whose mothers did everything 'right' (natural childbirth, no drugs, breast fed) who are complete pains in the arse (bullying etc.) It puts paid to the notion of 'better' mother and child, are the ones who benefitted from breast feeding.

Acruell-I thinknyou have made the OP's point for her perfectly.

All this antagonism towards ffers is not real.

Silly me, I must have completely imagined the last 3 months of my life. I agree that breast is best and women should be supported to bf. They should feel proud if they want. But please don't deny my experience because it's very real. The descriptions above about midwives, doctors and health visitors pushing formula feeding is completely the opposite of all of my interactions with them. Is that because I'm in a naice leafy middle class area? If it is, maybe the bf messaging should be better targeted so it actually reaches women who would never have considered it, rather than those feeling very raw about the fact they stopped.

@Bertrand Except that nowhere have I said she shouldn't be proud. My point above is that so many posts on this thread talk about people having a negative attitude towards bf and how can we challenge that. My experience has been the complete opposite, and I can't believe I'm the only one.

You would have to be a pretty brave person to say anything positive about breastfeeding after reading your post, Accruel....

AccrualIntentions the point I am making is this "us and them" situation doesn't exist.

Most women formula feed at some point.
Most women who breastfeed will use formula at some point.