To protect my daughter? Trigger warning

[TiredMumToTwo]

WWYD - would you let your 5 year old DD stay overnight in a house with an adult who had been accused of historical sexual abuse of a minor but been found not guilty at Crown Court?

For context. A family member once had to sit on a jury for a very serious crime. Everyone wanted to ring him guilty as they all knew he was guilty but due to a tiny legal loophole thing they had to find him not guilty. The accused even went up to my family member, laughed and thanked them for finding them not guilty when "I'd done it"

Just because someone is found not guilty it doesn't mean they are innocent just that a conviction wouldn't stick or isn't allowed.

I didn't even read your opening post OP. The title of the thread was enough for me. Whatever the case, if it involves protecting your child then YANBU. You do what you must.

Any fallout that happens within the family as a result of your decision op is not your responsibility at all op.

Your responsibility is to make the right choice to keep your dd safe.

All the rest is everyone elses problem - not yours - and it's sad that you have these concerns to deal with and that no one seems to be supporting you family wise.

Make your decision without concerning yourself about what the rest of them think.

Not a chance in hell i would

I understand it's awkward but FUCK NO!!!!!
I'd rather fall out with my MIL than deal with the lifetime, multi generational devastation child abuse brings

You've made your choice - correctly in my view. Your husband now has to make his - appeasing his mother or keeping his wife and daughter.

I'm actually quite worried now, OP, given your other posts.
If you were to split with your husband over this (or anything else), then presumably, given both he and GM think he's innocent, he would take DD round there.
Possibly leave her unsupervised, ask to babysit etc.
I don't see how SS could do anything - he has been tried and found not guilty in the eyes of the law. Any action by yourself, and surely you'd be harassing an 'innocent' man?

I really don't know what is the best long-term to ensure your DD is kept safe.

No way would I allow it.
Also I would have concerns about the child who does stay there and would be reporting to social services.

Sorry op I'm a sw and out sex abuse cases arnt based entirely on convictions it's not as black and white as that.

I just want to mention that conviction rates for child sexual abuse cases which go to court are actually quite good: 73.6% in 2015.

I think these rates have gone down by a couple of points as more cases are being reported and brought to court, but I didn't find conviction rates for 2017.

I am just mentioning this as several posters have implied that most people who are brought to court get off on technicalities, which is not true (though incredibly upsetting when it does happen, of course).

Good on you, OP. Your situation is as tough as it gets. Happy are those who believe without seeing. In your case, you're surrounded by a family in denial. They don't want to see the truth that's staring at them in the face. Shame on all of them.
And remember, doting is not another word for loving. I am aghast that your MIL would stick with such a man. Doting on her grandchildren means bupkis. But that's not your problem.

All you have to do is protect your DD. And you'll do that.

PH op this must be horrible for you....

Risk your marriage and falling out badly with GM

or High (imo) risk of sexual assault to your daughter.

There is no choice, you have to protect your daughter whatever the fallout.

So sorry op.

Absolutely not, many sexual predators cannot be prosecuted for a wide variety of reasons and it's not worth the risk.

I think I’d have to be saying, to both my MIL/SFIL, that what you are very supportive of SFIL, and he’s never given you cause for concern, you just can’t feel comfortable any more with sleepovers right now, and you’re sure that SFIL understands because he is a kind man and wouldn’t want to cause any distress so let’s just spend time together as a family.

To my DH, I’d be saying he must put our DD above any hurt feelings any of the adults might have. That even a 1% chance there is something to the accusations is 1% too much, and if his DM and SFIL can’t put aside their own hurt feelings in favour of a child - their GC - then their priorities are wrong. If they insist that overnight sleepovers are crucial to a good relationship with DD then that’s worrying in itself.

To the wider family I’d say - it’s not a judgement on you, you must act according to your conscience but I just can’t be happy at overnights any more and there are lots of ways for DD to still have a good relationship with her GPs.

Adults must deal with their hurt feelings. They don’t get to use your DD to paper over any issues this has brought up - that’s just not appropriate at all.

I wouldn't let her sleepover either. Could SS make it one of the conditions that she doesn't have sleepovers - then it's out of your hands and protects her in the future if you where to split up.

concrete the requirements are different for saying someone did something in family court than they are in criminal court so even with no conviction or a not guilty in cc ss could still take action

However I do not have a huge amount of faith in the family courts when it comes to restricting a father outside of a situation with the LA taking the action.
I have some incredibly restrictive court orders preventing my ex husband doing a fair few things with our child they were incredibly hard to obtain I’ve spent over 150k doing so and that was mainly trying to protect my child from a convicted and known child abuser (his GF) and from some crazy decision making caused by a serious illness.

You need ask ffs ??

I was sexually abused by an ‘uncle’ (Step dads friend) I told my parents, it went to court, he was found not guilty. His family believed him, allowed their granddaughters to stay there and guess what - he abused them! Trust your Gut and protect your child no matter what the consequences 💐

Current child abuse cases have a good success rate once they've gone to trial. That's because the CPS only pursue cases where there is a 'realistic prospect of conviction'.

Historic cases are very hard to prove, though.

Surely the accused would understand why a parent would say no too....

A PP said this up-thread and that’s the angle I’d be taking with them all. They should be reassuring you your decisions are okay, not pressurising you.

To my DH, I’d be saying he must put our DD above any hurt feelings any of the adults might have. That even a 1% chance there is something to the accusations is 1% too much, and if his DM and SFIL can’t put aside their own hurt feelings in favour of a child - their GC - then their priorities are wrong. If they insist that overnight sleepovers are crucial to a good relationship with DD then that’s worrying in itself

The bloke will just reply ‘there is not even a 1% chance’ he appeared as a witness for the defence

People that shield sex offenders and make out the children involved are less than human do it to try and justify their own actions in supporting sex offenders, calling those boys druggy losers. These people inc your DH have a warped loyalty that actually makes them dangerous as well.

Protect her and as much as the other woman let's her child stay there as SS are involved I would tell them the whole story,

I was going to say that there is no need for a grand gesture ie you don't need to say no way is she ever staying here but just don't arrange it. My children 23 and 18 have never stayed at GPs houses. There has just never been any need. We see both sets of GPs very often but why do they need to sleep over? I have never said that they can't but it has just never happened.

However, in your case OP there seems to be a lot of pressure being applied to make you agree to your daughter sleeping there. That makes me uncomfortable, even without the history. Why would GPs be making such a big deal out of this? Surely the norm would be to ask if Gd would like to sleep over you would reply along the lines of "oh nice idea but she's a bit young/doesnt like being away from home etc" and the drop it. Why would they be persisting and applying so much pressure? My answer would be no, she doesn't want to thank you and leave it at that. You aren't accusing anyone and if they don't back off then I would cut all contact and accept whatever fall out that might cause.

The damage that results from childhood SA is horrific, OP. My DSis and I have PTSD and all sorts of other issues; there were a lot of other things that happened to us besides that incident I talked about earlier.

Just don't risk it.

Please stop being hung up on sleepovers being the only risk. The child is potentially at risk whenever she comes into contact with him, particularly given that other family members trust him. A few minutes popping to the loo or into the kitchen leaving her alone with him is all it takes. As I said up thread my abuse never happened at night or in the bedroom, it was in snatched opportunities during the daytime, often when other family members were elsewhere in the house/garden, once when another relative had just popped to the shops so I was alone with him.
Hell would free over before any child of mine would be in the same room as him if I wasn't there too.

Just a thought, if you split up over this and got divorced, what is stopping your DH from taking her and allowing sleep overs when he has contact?