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Original poster

Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

731 replies

lottieandmia22 · 18/01/2018 19:49

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

OP posts:
1ndig0 · 21/01/2018 20:48

Sorry I was answering the other question! Of course, I made an effort when we were dating. I think I said this earlier in the thread. I could book things like the theatre ahead or cook dinner for him - I even did some of his more extreme sports like diving which were out of my comfort zone. To be honest, he proposed after 6 months anyway and then we just merged everything so it made no difference.

Donnerkebabbler · 21/01/2018 21:48

My parents were born in the 40’s. This thread makes me appreciate how progressive they were, especially for their time and
for having 2 daughters. They taught me I can be independent and have it all, and they were right.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2018 22:39

"On the contrary I find a guy who is interested in equality a far better romantic prospect! "

But a man (or woman) who earns more, but always insists on splitting the bill 'equally' isn't actually being equal because the burden will always be higher on the lower earner. Equal is paying according to what you can pay.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2018 22:40

"What this seems to be saying is that if you have group membership in a group with lower wage, and you are dating someone with group membership in a higher wage, then the higher wage group member should pay. But happens if you split the groups another way. Race? Occupation? Education?"

I didn't understand any of that birdseye. Can you explain?

RaspberryCheese · 21/01/2018 22:45

Only read the front page. Its 50/50 all the way for me .If i were taking a GF out for a special mean say birthday/valentines etc i would pay . I wouldnt expect someone to pay my way all the time so why expect me to do the same?

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/01/2018 22:47

Gwenhwyfar

Surely you should be paying for what you eat?

JacquesHammer · 21/01/2018 22:50

Equal is paying according to what you can pay

Which isn't automatically the guy for a start

JacquesHammer · 21/01/2018 22:51

Sorry poorly worded, I meant the guy isn't automatically the one who is a higher earner and thus should pay for the meal

JacquesHammer · 21/01/2018 22:52

I give in Gwyn. Just noticed you said (or woman!)

I'm - for the first time ever - the lower earner in a datingish thing. It's weird Grin

TheBrilliantMistake · 21/01/2018 22:54

I don't think it's about who is the highest earner, merely about people's general behaviour and willingness to share things, be it work around the house, or paying for a meal.

There's pressure on a man to pay for things - even though it's an old tradition, it's still highly prevalent, and can be problematic for some men, in some circumstances. However, at the end of the day, it all comes down to two people doing the right thing by each other, and as long as both don't feel they are being taken advantage of, then what does it matter?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 22/01/2018 08:39

Men should pay for dates because it's the more gentlemanly thing to do.

Utter antiquated nonsense.

Good manners and being a gentleman is not and should not be tied to money. They are attributes that a man can demonstrate for free.

I struggled through most of my 20s while I paid off student debts and tried to establish my fledgling (and not at first terribly well paid) career. The societal expectation from some women back then that I should have to pay for for first dates despite them often earning way more then me whilst simultaneously running the risk of being labelled ‘tight’ if if did not demonstrate enough financial largess is absurd.

Thankfully it would seem these days, especially amongst younger people, that such expectations are being consigned to the dustbin.

1ndig0 · 22/01/2018 09:41

Pan - if you read my posts you'll see I largely agree with you. It was other posters who were hell-bent on making out it was all about money, rather than general behaviour traits.

birdseye2010 · 22/01/2018 10:48

I didn't understand any of that birdseye. Can you explain?

if the justification for men paying is something like the wage gap (i.e. women on average earn less), should this be extended to other group memberships? For example, if white british woman dates an immigrant man (I don't know the stats here, but let's assume members of the former group on average make more than the latter), is the woman expected to pay?

Surely, it shouldn't depend on averages, but, if anything, on the individuals. But this then begs the question of why this balancing of books only happens on dates. Rarely are people who are merely acquainted expected to correct these societal imbalances. Every time you go to dinner with someone, it's more than likely one person earns a good degree more than the other, and it's usually not expected the person with the higher wage pays.

If men are expected to pay, don't be surprised if they expect something in return. Social norms are pressures are a way to enforce the status quo, and make no mistake it works both ways.

birdseye2010 · 22/01/2018 10:54

if you read my posts you'll see I largely agree with you. It was other posters who were hell-bent on making out it was all about money, rather than general behaviour traits.

That's not at all what I am reading from the other posts. It isn't at all about money, but it's about different expectations for the different sexes. And people here are objecting not because they don't want a free meal or like the gesture, but they don't like the other end of that stick, or what it means about the broader society. These imbalances, which may seem nice in isolation (who doesn't like having dinner paid for?), come from a nasty place. Why should men pay? it's because traditionally women had virtually no economic power.

Original poster
lottieandmia22 · 22/01/2018 21:37

I had no idea this thread would reach 600ish posts.

I went back over my dating history and everyone I've ever dated insisted on paying for me, even though I tried to reciprocate. And if we got to date 3/4 they would eventually let me buy them a cocktail or something. Except one person and he was generally tight.

I do think that shows that most men don't want to be seen to not pay. Whether it's right or not is beside the point really.

OP posts:
Gah81 · 22/01/2018 22:04

Most of the men I have dated - including the odd millionaire, who seem to be less conscious about pounds and pence - have let me pay my way.

So you see, from my sample size, I would draw a very different conclusion from yours :) it is hard to conclude what "most men want to do" either way, but then for me what the man thinks/wants on this issue means less than what it means to me!

I do think it may have to do with social/dating circles though. Also, as I work in financial services (and I understand I come across as pretty independent/driven generally) it may well be more obvious that I earn more than many of the men I date so they are happier to give in!

IloveJudgeJudy · 23/01/2018 00:56

1ndig0 why do your 15yo DS and his male friends pay for their 'girlfriends' in Starbucks? I'm genuinely interested. Do they all get/have more money than the girls? Aren't they irritated that the girls don't offer to pay? Or do the girls offer and the boys decline? This is completely baffling to me.

Gladiola44 · 23/01/2018 05:52

1ndig0 why do your 15yo DS and his male friends pay for their 'girlfriends' in Starbucks? I'm genuinely interested. Do they all get/have more money than the girls? Aren't they irritated that the girls don't offer to pay? Or do the girls offer and the boys decline? This is completely baffling to me.

I’m not 1ndig0 but I can answer for my own views, my DS isn’t old enough for dating yet but I would always encourage him to pay on dates and be generous. I think this is one way men show they cherish their dates and that they enjoy spending time with them. It’s a huge turn off if a man is tight or ungenerous. I want my DS to be happy and successful and paying for dates is just good manners in my view.

Veterinari · 23/01/2018 06:03

I think this is one way men show they cherish their dates and that they enjoy spending time with them. It’s a huge turn off if a man is tight or ungenerous

And yet many women on this thread appear to be entirely comfortable with appearing to be tight, ungenerous and sexist.

Ugh! No wonder we’re accused of double standards, it’s hardly the 1950s yet so many people here are still judging a man on his earning capacity and see equality as equivalent to being ‘tight’ It’s pretty sad.

Original poster
lottieandmia22 · 23/01/2018 06:14

It's not the 1950s but I do think men and women will always have differing roles. It's just the way it is.

OP posts:
Veterinari · 23/01/2018 06:25

And these differing roles include the man footing the bill or risking being judged ungenerous whilst a women with similar potential for earning refuses because...? Oh yeah she’s a woman.

I guess by the same logic we probably shouldn't push to equalise the gender pay gap - because it’s pretty clear from this thread that women are happy to sit back and leech off men Confused

Gah81 · 23/01/2018 06:30

What a depressing thought, OP.

Some biological differences, yes, but I am hopeful that once more women earn more (including than the man - this is quite a common occurrence amongst my friendship group), become more assertive and financially independent then it will no longer be expected by anyone that the person who happens to have been born with a penis automatically has to pay on dates, or elsewhere, for the person born without.

mojito55 · 23/01/2018 06:38

Yes. And so should women.

Buck3t · 23/01/2018 07:19

Wow! To think women born after 1960 would think it appropriate to expect men to pay for the first date (or all dates), and if they don't they're judged as tight. Without fear that the man may feel the same if they don't even offer.

I'm really shocked by what I read here and what's worse you are raising young men and women to perpetuate this. I presume you don't teach the boys to cook, or clean as well, as that's not what men do. I'm starting to feel for my daughter.

And for the record my DH is overly generous but we split the bill on our first date.

Original poster
lottieandmia22 · 23/01/2018 07:24

It's not really about leeching off men. It's merely going back to the obvious fact that women are the ones who have babies and more often than not have to take time out of their careers to look after or at least carry and birth them.

OP posts:
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