Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

birdseye2010 agreed. But due to having very little free time for dates it often come for me to spend a bit of time to know someone over online/phone before hand.

"I wonder what things women should do because they're seen to be feminine?"

Well, in my view, women should not see being feminine as a negative for a start. You are biologically different to men - no amount of splitting bills will change that really. I actually think that men and women are similar in more ways than they're not, but trying to pretend there are no differences whatsoever does nobody any favours.

I actually think that men and women are similar in more ways than they're not, but trying to pretend there are no differences whatsoever does nobody any favours.

How is it that biological differences between men and women mean that men should pay for dates but women shouldn’t?

Pressure from society to act in a feminine way does women no favours at all.

It's not just about paying - that's the whole point! I never gave a hoot or needed some man's money fgs. It's about the way they treat you and relate to you in general.

It's about the way they treat you and relate to you in general.

Yes, you’ve made it clear that it’s the way they treat you when the bill arrives....

You wrote this upthread indigo
Men should pay for dates because it's the more gentlemanly thing to do.

1ndig0

It's about the way they treat you and relate to you in general.

Where is the reciprocal treatment?

@Champagneandthestars

But I would give my kidney to my partner, I would also give her every penny I owned, but thats not because I'm a man its because I love her. That love extends to respecting and valueing her independance, her right to pay her own way if she wants to.
I probably wouldnt be that in to someone who just expected me to pay for everything all the time, I want to be with someone with greater ambition and self respect than that.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'll say this one more time - it's not about the money, its about the behaviour.
If you don't get that, I don't know what else to say.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'll say this one more time - it's not about the money, its about the behaviour.

But the behaviour is handing over their money. You can’t separate the money from the behaviour.

Nobody on here has said they expect men to pay for everything all the time.

@1ndig0

But the behaviour you expect is for the man to pay for dinner, not just to offer but to pay for the dinner because he has a dick. How are you expecting him to pay for this dinner? Oh, with money. You cant say its not about money, of course it is because you expect a man to spend his money on you.

@1ndig0

So why just the first date? What about the second date, the first holiday, the bills, the petrol.... when does it stop. Whats so different about the first date that it must solely be the financial responsability of the male and all over expenses are to be equal?

1ndig0

Yet Champagneandthestars posted this
If a man finished a relationship because he had to always pay for dinner then he clearly wasn't that into her.

So it is the spending of the money that is the proof (at least for her and others)

But where and how are you proving your treatment and how you relate to the man?.

As a man I would always offer to pay but it's also a nice gesture for the other person to offer to pay half, or at least if the date has gone well they could say they will get the next one

This can be a real issue for men, as it's commonly expected that a man should pay. It's still seen as chivalrous / gentlemanly to do so.

However, it's not uncommon for some men to be struggling to afford such things, and their embarassment over it can cause a lot of problems.

In a perfect world, I guess a man would simply admit it's a problem for him, and perhaps suggest an alternative way to enjoy time together, but that can very hard for a man to do, and perhaps difficult for some women to appreciate.

I think most decent men want to make a woman feel special on a date, and want to pay for everything - not to show off, but because it feels good. But we can be emotionally messed up by what we perceive to be expected of a 'man'. Not having a job, not having money, or not having one of the more traditional attributes of a man still preys on many men's minds.

Ok, I might have said this earlier in the thread, but here goes again.
For instance, when I was dating DH (in the late nineties) he would always pick me up and take me home. I appreciated the gesture -I didn't need his car or a driver!
I liked the fact that he had manners, e.g. opening doors - obviously I manage to open most doors in a day-to-day basis, but I appreciate the gesture.
It's the same with paying for dinner - it's the gesture. I didn't go out with him for his money!

There is a huge difference (for either gender) between someone who would if they could, or are willing, and someone who expects.

Ultimately therein lies the rub. When we truly beiieve someone would pay if they were able, or are more than willing to pay if asked, then it's fine. When someone expects you to pay, or cannot accept you're unable to afford something, then there's a serious problem likely to manifest itself in many other relationship issues too.

1ndig0

what are your gestures, manners, respect.

What are you doing to prove yourself to him?

My fiancé is what you would call typically romantic: writes me poems, runs a bath for me when I have had a long day, sends me texts to let me know he is thinking of me (as well as being reliable, supportive, remembers my family's birthdays etc.)

He let me insist on paying my way for drinks and dinner on our first date 3 years ago. He invited me, organised the venue, then messaged me the loveliest text at the end of the night. DP is a millionaire a few times over and far from tight but he also realises that he can demonstrate his feelings and consideration for me in other ways - and he does.

It is about behaviour. The implication though from some of this, is that a man not paying for you on a date is a super bad sign and indicative of his behaviour generally. In a day and age when there are lots of us feminists around, I think that lack of relationship between these two things is increasingly pronounced.

Boney - I take care of my husband in my way and he takes care of me in his way. It's fine.

@1ndig0

I'm going to go take a guess that you do all his cooking and cleaning?

1ndig0

What did you do on the dates other than turn up and talk?

I do cook for him because that's something I do. I don't do much cleaning because we have a cleaner in several times a week. I don't work since the DC but that was a mutual decision and we don't need the money. I have done all I can to support him and he's been extremely successful while I've had the freedom to be with the DC and whatever else.

1ndig0

Is it really that hard a question to answer?