Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

@Gladiola44

With that attitude im suprised you have got anyone to go on a second date with you!

I just think that if women want to accept all the good things that come with gender equality (the right to vote, equal pay, equal opportunity etc.) then it cuts both ways.

So I wouldn't expect a man to offer me a seat on a tube simply because I am a woman. Neither would I expect the man to pay for a date or, indeed anything, simply because I am a woman.

I find this attitude quite odd. Sexist expectations go both ways. if you expect a man to pay because that's what men are supposed to do, you may not like what he expects women to do in return.

I met DH when we were 18. I lived with my pretty wealthy parents who gave me a generous weekly allowance, and I had a part-time job in their café, and my parents still bought me all necessities. DH lived with his father and step-mum, who were super tight, and got a small amount of EMA each week, more than half of which went on his bus pass to travel to and from sixth-form. I paid for virtually everything right from the beginning, as I had far more money, and if I didn't we just wouldn't be able to have gone on the dates in the first place. We did do a lot of free stuff like go to parks, or he would come to my house, or go to museums etc especially as he had free travel. This went on for the first 6 months-ish until we both started uni and then he got the maximum amount of student loans & grants so actually had more money than me.

In general I'd expect to go halves though despite what we actually did. We were very young then when I was paying for everything. Now I'm older I would have more sense not to do that . Plus I'm on a low-income anyway so it wouldn't be likely that anyone I was dating would be financially much worse off than me anyway. I certaintly wouldn't like someone to pay just because they're a man. Also, I'm not heterosexual, and my attitude to payment on a date is the same whether I'm dating a woman or a man - halves is the fairest. Or possibly if it was going well, one person would pay and the other person would get the next one or whatever.

I just think that if women want to accept all the good things that come with gender equality (the right to vote, equal pay, equal opportunity etc.) then it cuts both ways

Well women don't as yet have all the good things that come from equality...so why should we give up one of the perks that inequality gives us?

Well women don't as yet have all the good things that come from equality...so why should we give up one of the perks that inequality gives us?

Because that's too blunt an instrument.

I'm not going to expect a guy to pay for everything on a first date because there might somewhere be a gender pay gap. Or poor career profession for women.

I can't say "I want equality" if the caveat is "but only if you're a "gentleman" and pay.

If you think men who agree to going halves on a first date are doing so out of feminist principles, you are very naive.

Where did I say that Formerbabe?

@formerbabe

But you either want equality or you dont. The idea that the man is the superior in the relationship and so should be paying for everything is detrimental to you to, dont you want financial independance? By holding on to inequality you are preventing the progress of equality, you never know if you start respecting yourself more, others may follow suit.

I'm just making the point that women on here who will pay half in the name of equality are wasting their time if they think men even care.

I don't care why the man agrees to going halves as long as he does it. I think I do move in circles where the men tend to be pretty enlightened about feminism though.

I also personally feel that it weakens the principle of the equality argument as men can then go "so you're happy for us to bring unequal in some things, as long as it's me who pays?!"

I am aware that I am in a privileged position as I earn more than any other man in my role in my firm (despite being younger).

And men don't need to care. It means a lot to me, and that's why I do it.

I'm just making the point that women on here who will pay half in the name of equality are wasting their time if they think men even care

why is a woman's action about how much a man cares?

Why is it for example on programmes like first dates the man nearly always offers to pay and the women never take offence with that?
And this goes for women in their 20s 30s etc.
The only time on the programme I've seen a man say to split the bill the woman looked a bit and then didn't see him again.

@formerbabe

But you have also made the point that you dont even care. You have said you want to hold on to the man paying for the date, you are not doing that for equality, you are doing that for inequality.
I care, my DP wants to pay her own way and I respect that. I paid for our first date and she paid for our second, I would happily pay for everything but she wants to pay her share. Im not going to disprespect her wishes and insist I pay because my ego isnt that fragile and I am not superior.

My point is they obviously didn't see this as controlling or abusive and just took it for what it was a nice gesture.
And even if the man paid he was always happy to see the woman again he didn't think moneygrabber and to my knowledge he didn't expect sex at the end of the night.

I paid for our first date

So where's the disagreement. You did what I'd expect a man to do. I don't think men should necessarily pay for every subsequent date.

Around I can't believe that you give money to your 16yo DS so that he always pays for his gf! What on earth kind of society are these young people living in, or what kind of message are you giving both of them there? That's actually outrageous behaviour. One that you're bringing him up to believe that the male should always pay. Two that you're helping his very young, as is he, gf to believe that the male should pay and three that you believe it, too.

I've been with DH nearly 30 years and we split/took it in turns right from the beginning. In fact, his approach to equality is one of the things I love about him. Our DSs are 23 and 19 and this dreadful mindset is still, shockingly, pretty prevalent now, that the male should pay. Unbelievable how little things have changed. Unfortunately.

You did what I'd expect a man to do

And that's what's wrong. The expectation that men behave in a prescribed way because they're men.

If you think men who agree to going halves on a first date are doing so out of feminist principles, you are very naive.

no, but it adds to the sense that women need less money.

Just like there are constant little cues of sexism towards women that can add up, the same goes for men. If men are constantly expected to pay for everything, don't be surprised if they turn around and then don't have sympathy for the gender pay gap.

With that attitude im suprised you have got anyone to go on a second date with you!

Don’t be surprised, men are always happy to pay on a date with someone they really like, unless they’re tight.

@Gladiola44

Perfectly happy to pay, yes even if I didnt like them that much. But the assumption that they just will pay your half is rather unattractive.

unless they’re tight

What? By not wanting to pay for a date? You mean like you...

Don’t be surprised, men are always happy to pay on a date with someone they really like, unless they’re tight.

Some pretty big generalisations there! Most of my male peer group found it a pretty instant turn off if a women on a date did not even offer to buy a drink let alone go Dutch. It’s not about penny pinching, it’s about not finding that sense of entitlement or princess attitude to be terribly attractive.

From what I can see those that say men should pay or those that ask should pay get a free meal for at least two dates, if we go by out dated etiquette.

A man should ask a woman out ergo he should pay.
he should then wait three days and then ask for a second date, ergo the man pays.