Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

car insurance

Gender neutral ruling was 2011
This includes situation since then
It's very interesting actually

Seeing as people are talking about it.

Did anyone see that episode of First Dates where the marilyn monroe look alike handed the fireman with 3 kids the bill? She was truly awful...
www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/would-you-split-bill-date-6640503

If we want true equality between the sexes then we have to forgo the beneficial traditions too.

Also what happens with lesbians. Who pays in that date. And if accept to go halves will they get a second date?

To worridmum

If you bring age discrimination laws in for insurance, it will essentially render certain parts of the market unviable

It is a fact that your risk of dying increases as you get older for example, It's not age discrimination to say that a 20yo should pay less premiums when taking out a new policy than an 85 year old.

Similarly, disability discrimination is not invoked in underwriting. If you have to charge everybody the same irrespective of their state of health, the products will no longer be viable. End of that insurance sector.

The industry relies on a pool of risk and is there to cover unexpected losses. As soon as you tamper with that to allow risks that are pretty much guaranteed into the equation then the whole thing falls apart.

If you want insurance with no discrimination whatsoever then that's national insurance or similar you are looking at. Which is a model but at the moment we do have private insurance companies involved as well.

I'm interested to hear further your views around all this it's a fascinating topic.

UpABitLate that’s amazing, isn’t it? Thanks for sharing, very interesting 👍

I’m completely appalled at the notion expressed earlier that the man should pay because the woman has spent money getting ready!

How you dress and your grooming regime is entirely choice.

Was just discussing this with DH. When we got married I bought a wedding gown and he bought a handmade suit. 18 years later he still wears his suit for any occasion he needs to dress up for (admittedly he now wears a different shirt). If I was still wearing the dress I got married in to every smart occasion I'd be known as Miss Havisham. Women do not have the choice to wear the same outfit again and again in the way that men can and it's ridiculous to suggest we do.

While I don't necessarily think it means we should expect men to always pay for meals on dates it's a valid point that gender roles (and by that I mean sexist assumptions) put asymetric expectations on men and women that mean saying half each on a specific expense in a long term relationship is not always the most equitable solution.

FWIW I believe both people on a first date should offer to pay and then should either come to the 50:50 or 'I'll pay next time' arrangement. Thereby letting the other person know if this is a single date or that you hope to see them again.

Most people and especially women in the UK cannot afford private health insurance so it's a bit of a red herring IMO.

Most companies don't offer it either. It is VERY expensive.

This thread is a really interesting view into how even the most simple of things - going on a date - is rendered a minefield by social & cultural views around gender, ideas which probably vary depending on how you were brought up and stuff, and women's constant attempts to be treated better in society always seeming to end up with us losing out one way or another. So, pay gap remains, but we have to pay for dates. We carry on having babies, but we have to pay for them independently. This mix of chivalry / benevolent sexism / respect / and so on is so difficult because things which are much more important are not resolved.

Someone upthread suggesting that men shouldn't subsidise women's health issues. This has been implemented in some US states I think where company policies can exclude anything relating to female reproductive healthcare.

I see this as deeply inequitable.

I'm a man and i've been on a couple of dates recently, and paid on both of them even though she offered I didn't mind. By paying for a date, I in no way expect sex in slightest, we are two dates in and we have had a hug and kiss on cheek that's it, we are taking it slow.

Now this thread has me questioning myself and now have no idea what to to do on the third date.

worridmum
No my logic was both situations are wrong but some people think men should of paid more car insurance because statistically they cause more accidents then woman.

The reason why -young- men pay/paid more in car insurance isn't because they have more accidents its because the pay out on their accidents is more expensive, most accidents involving -young- women are barely covered by the excess.

I always take cash out with me on a first date when food will be involved.

Eat food
Bill arrives
Man picks up bill and goes to pay
I guess roughly the cost of what I ate / drank and shove it at him 🙄

After a little battle most men will accept my money if they really won't take the money I'll leave the tip and get the drinks in for the rest of the evening.

Some people 'date' 2, 3 or 4 nights a week .. why should the guy be stuck with the bill.

I haven't dated for 10 years but always went to the pub.

I've never been out for a meal for a first date let alone a pricey one.

So this is all a bit academic for me

Heresme - personally if I was going on a 3rd date with a man who'd paid for the first two I would definitely be paying on the 3rd. It just shows respect and that you aren't expecting the man to pay all of the time.

Or, if I was on a dinner and drinks date - if the man really insisted on the dinner I would definitely be buying the drinks.

I do appreciate a bit of old-fashioned courtesy for some romantic early dates, especially if I can sense that the man would like to pay as a treat (as opposed to offering but equally happy with halves which I would also be equally happy with) but if he had paid more than once or twice I would be anxious to demonstrate that I was not expecting it and would be looking to redress the balance.

I always expect to pay half and usually insist on doing so (one of the few occasions I can remember where I didn't was when I was 22 and got taken to Nobu by a much, much, MUCH wealthier bloke. I couldn't afford to pay half so I made a point of buying him drinks at the bar afterwards).

Also, I'm lucky enough that I usually earn more than my boyfriends (I work in financial services) so to expect them to pay for us both would be doubly unfair!

DP is the exception to this rule in terms of wealth dynamics but we have always taken it in turns to pay for things (with the exception of the first date, where we went halves, of course :) ).

Also never been out with a man who was older particularly.

If it was a situation where the man was quite a bit older and the woman was a student or something, and he really wanted to take her somewhere nice and said go on I'll pay then that would be different. Same if the sexes were reversed really.

I think a lot of this is about communication and stuff.

I think there are enough women who want to be paid for to match the men who refuse to go halves - and enough who both want to go dutch? There's not a one size fits all and what you prefer says something probably about wider values and how traditional people are and stuff so is probably a good way of getting a heads up about wider compatibility.

There's no hard and fast right or wrong here surely.

She has offered to pay for third date will see how it goes. Most blokes are confused as women on this

Also what happens with lesbians.

They do a runner

I've known men who wouldn't let any woman in the group pay for drinks / snacks in the pub, insisting on buying all the drinks with a wodge of cash.

Anyone else know blokes like that?

If food got involved then you'd pay for it yourself but otherwise if you tried to get a drink / round it's like nonono and their partner saying when he's not there no really don't he likes to do it just let him.

This is a funny old thread, it goes against the grain of the usual MN meal out dilemma.

Example. Invited for a meal out by a friend, MN opinion- friend should pick up the bill and it's incredibly rude if they then, after inviting you, expect you to pay for your food/drinks.

After reading this it seems to me that posters (some) would be insulted if a female friend expected to split the bill but would insist on paying there way if it was a date.

My husband and I sort of worked this out the opposite to most people.

When we first stated going out we would split the bills, I'd pay my share or pay for the next thing. After we'd been dating a little while, just a few weeks, I couldn't keep up with the spending so he largely took over and I just paid for what I could.

I wouldn't go halves on a date - it feels wrong and less special. With my DH, and most of my exes (I did most of my dating in Germany), it was whoever asked the other out who paid. So if I suggested cinema, I would pay. If he suggested dinner, he did. If either of us wanted to do something but couldn't afford to - we'd ask the other obviously to pay or just wait until we could. It always worked well for me/us. Less pressure on the man financially, less pressure on the woman to 'owe' anything (not that anyone should feel that way, but I've experienced it).

I expect them to pay on first date if they asked me out, but not on subsequent dates, I feel it is their gesture to show how much they are into me. I always offer half but if they except then I wouldn't call them again.

He pays, obviously.

For the waiter/ress to go home with both of you.

When I see posters saying that if a man accepts their offer of paying for themselves they wouldn't go on a second date I'm very inclined to think that man has had a lucky escape.