To ask - is my husband's refusal to have sex is abuse? Grounds for divorce?

[worrieddottcom]

I've posted with my husband's refusal to have sex with me under a different name.

In 2017 - no sex at all and only a few short hugs.

2016 - sex three times.

2015 - twice.

I can't take it anymore.

He's a fabulous dad to our teen child.

He loves me - I know he does.

It's not enough.

I'm ashamed to admit to having a non sexual, emotional affair over the last year. This man makes me feel desirable. It won't go any further than that, but it has given me some comfort.

For the last year or so, my husband has chosen to sleep in another room. This started when he had a heavy cold and snored so much that he kept me awake.

Every night, he stays in his study and plays computer games. I watch tv in another room.

He adores our child and will do everything for him.

I'm depressed and frightened and frustrated.

I don't think I can honour the vows I made at our wedding.

Husky (I love huskies too, btw, they are lovely) - I meant every word of my marriage vows.

I can see that if people have been in abusive relationships and made to have sex or to feel they must, then it could be difficult to see that it is perfectly possible within a non abusive relationship to compromise on sex or to have sex when it's not really what you feel like, without there being some level of abuse involved.

The thing is, that lots of people DO have sex sometimes when they wouldn't initiate it or feel like it, in happy relationships. They do it willingly and they aren't coerced and it isn't abuse. It's just one of the things they do in a mature, compromising relationship, because the other person wants to do it. They are not forced, but they choose to do something which isn't their top preference. Perhaps it's hard to imagine that with sex, if you have been abused - I can see that. However, not wanting to have sex doesn't always have to result in not having it.
I am talking here, not about desperately not wanting to have sex because it is scary or it hurts or those kind of things. Of course no one should be saying yes to those kind of things. However, people often do have sex when the other person is keen and they are basically just not in the mood really. There's nothing abhorrent about the idea, just that at that moment, they don't really feel like it and might prefer to go to sleep or have a cup of tea. Agreeing to sex in this situation in a happy marriage happens all the time. In fact I would say it is usual - people do have different libidos so often one person would like sex more often than the other and probably one has sex more frequently than they might choose. They are not being abused or forced. They are choosing. People make these kind of choices in mature relationships and doing something that wouldn't be your top preference isn't a sign of you being a doormat, or a victim or the other person being an abuser. I can see though that when you have been in an abusive relationship, every little thing can be a way to abuse the other person and everything done that wouldn't be a choice might be a sign of abuse. Absolutely. But it's not quite like that in non abusive relationships.

Wombat I really believe you on that, or you wouldn't still be sticking around and trying to fix this. x

Great post Chocolate and so true.

Holdon - with ref to the bit of my previous post that you quoted - if you look again, you'll see you missed the context of my previous paragraph.

I made clear that no over ever has to have sex. I made clear that there are all kinds of reasons why someone might not want to have sex.

The thing that some people on here don't seem to understand or know about is happy relationships. Within those, people say no to sex all the time. They don't feel like it, something at that point is making it hurt. They are tired, their libido is low......there can be hundreds of reasons. They say no and their DH or DW is fine with it. And this saying no can go on for a while. Perfectly normal. And in happy, balanced relationships the people have a chat about it and the person saying no explains why and the other person does their best to understand and be caring....because they love that person. And actually what also happens is that sometimes the person who doesn't feel like sex, does have sex. They could say no and they would be entitled to and the other person couldn't and mustn't insist on it or pressure them, but actually they say yes, because they know it's important for the other person....and because they love that person. It's not wrong to have sex within a loving relationship if you didn't really feel like it. You could have said yes or you could have said no, and as long as it's your choice it's fine.
I just think some people on this thread sound like they have never been in a happy relationship where these kind of day to day compromises happen and where people actually choose to do the thing the other person wants, without it being forced on them, or without it all being about looking out for your own interests.
Op is disappointed in her DH. She knows she's not entitled to sex, but his lack of concern and interest in her and willingness to talk disappoints her. And she's right to be disappointed, because whilst she might not be entitled to sex, I think she can expect to at least have communication about the issue over a 15 year period. He has basically been disinterested in sex for 15 years - it's not an odd no here and there or a dry patch, but 15 years....and he hasn't been willing to talk.
Question to OP, does he engage with you over other subjects? Is he willing to compromise and discuss and sometimes put your needs first on other matters?

We cannot force men to have sex with us by classing it as abuse.

Please show me where anyone said men should be forced into sex, or even where it is implied.

Please show me where anyone said men should be forced into sex, or even where it is implied.

I believe that post was deleted earlier on.

The post was deleted but it didn't say that.

It is certainly abuse if she has tried to initiate sex and has been turned down with no explanation or alternative offered to intercourse.

Just imagine if a man said that he was being abused because his wife didn't consent to sex.

I posted a response to another poster's misreading of that earlier. I'm not going to do it again. You can find it for yourself.

Some people here seem unaware of the ways in which withholding of affection, conversation, and sex can damage the other partner. Abuse is not all about acts of commission. Deliberate omission is abuse too, as is deliberately refusing to discuss hurt.

Op, you don't say how old you are? I'm presuming you're in your 30's or 40's?

When you are lying on your death bed, hopefully aged 85+, do you want to look back on this time of your life, with deep regret? Look back at a time when you were so vibrant & sexy, but with a man who didn't engage with you, and didn't make you feel sexually wanted, or even alive?

What would your 85 year old self, advise the person who you are now, in this reality, with 40 years of life left to live?

Would it be to "put up and shut up"? To live in this youthful body and accept no sex or affection? Or, do you think you'd tell the younger you, to go out and find amazing sex, whether it's a series of flings, or something more meaningful (long term), whilst you still had a flush of youth left within you? To have fun whilst you still could?

Time flies by. One day you will be that old lady. What then?

But what if the husband is amazing in everything - other than the lack of sex?

Edge Firstly, he isn't amazing in every other way.....he locks himself away in his study every night and ignores the Op. Secondly, even if he was amazing in every other way, then sure, he could be her BFF, but he certainly ain't being her lover....a space that needs filling (excuse the pun).

Huskylover1

Sorry the question wasn't actually about the OP's situation. Just curious what would be the advice if the husband is amazing in every other way aside from the sex.

It's emotionally abusive if he's deliberately withholding to punish or torment you - is he?

Just curious what would be the advice if the husband is amazing in every other way aside from the sex.

Plenty of people won't settle for a sexless marriage despite everything else being good because sex is important to them.

Others will choose to have a sexless marriage. Some might have an open marriage and so on.

I do not have a high sex drive, in fact it's quite low. I wouldn't stay with my husband if we never had sex again though. I want a lover and a passionate marriage, even if that isn't very frequent. If I am not getting that then I might as well move in with my best female friend, because the sex and physical intimacy is what separates my marriage from friendship.

If he was in an accident or something prevented him from having intercourse then I wouldn't leave him, but if there was no sexual intimacy of any kind then I imagine I might after time.

I read the OP and some of the thread last night and went to bed and sobbed and sobbed until I fell asleep. Needless to say DH was unaware of this, as he was sleeping in his office.

Worrieddotcom
I know the pain. My situation is very similar to yours, maybe just a bit less 'severe'. We have slightly more sex than you and it has not gone on for as long, but the rest is very similar, even the weight-lifting!

He spends most night in his office, watching TV. If I did not go up to find him and ask if he wants to do something together he would just fall asleep there. He now comes to our bed in the middle of the night, mainly because I (almost) beg him to do so. Sometimes he does not though. He says he sleeps better there.

I sometimes think he should never have got married. I think he would actually prefer to live on his own.

He did come to bed last night. I was half awake because I was so cold and tense I could not relax. He came in and cuddled next to me for a change and it felt so nice. I can totally relate to you, it is not the lack of sex, is the lack of intimacy, the coldness, the distance. Its so bloody painful.

He has been slightly better recently, so I am feeling more positive, but a year or so ago I would cry myself to sleep every night. I had suicidal thoughts.

There seems to be a cycle too. He goes through periods were he is very distant and then I say something and the penny drops and he realises the pain it causes me and gets a bit closer. And then starts again.

I sometimes think it is all in my head and that it is not 'that bad'.

We have had talks where he finally admits that sometimes he cannot live with himself and withdrawing is the only way to cope. He has had depression and all sorts of issues.

I still love him. Last year I thought I didn't love him anymore but I think it was also a way to protect myself if that makes any sense? Like you, I do not want to leave, just want to feel loved and desired.

Apologies for the stream of consciousness.
Hope you are ok

low libido in a man can be sign of ED (erectile dysfunction) or depression or anxiety. Maybe he is stressed about something.

OP, i do not wish to sound unkind or to judge you but is there a possibility he finds sex with you hard because of the affair? It must be hard to be intimate with someone you do not feel you can trust?

OP, I speed read your last post here and it does sound like depression- the way it is cyclical. being withdrawn from loved ones can be a sign. also compulsive activities- watching tv for hours can be a coping mechanism with it. i struggle with low mood and one of the things that happens when i am in a bad patch is my behaviour with TV and internet becomes very obsessive and i have no wish to interact with anyone IRL.

I think he needs a dr. Gp might be a god idea.

OP. fair play to you for ending the affair and trying to make things work out. Am sorry you going through this.

It's not cyclical as far as I can see, myguineapig.
Perhaps you have mistaken IamAporcupine's post for the OP's?

The OP's H went off sex 16 years ago, after their child was conceived, and also hugs/gestures of affection. He spends his evenings in his study. She sits on the couch watching tv. He has slept in a separate bed for a year.

She had an emotional affair with a man in the recent past. His withholding of sex and normal gestures of affection predates the affair by many, many years.

Yes, he may be depressed...

He never found out about the EA.

Op, could it be that he's getting it elsewhere: something like porn?

My ex was like that, and I wondered if he was gay or something. Turns out he just preferred to wank to porn and decided not to tell me.

For us, there was no improvement despite having therapy annually for 7 years, which is why he's now my ex.

It destroys your self confidence in a very special way.

Though ironically I'm now with someone who wants sex much more than I do, but doesn't seem to want me; to spend time or share life with me.

Even though this is hard, that was harder. So I hope you manage to get it sorted one way or another. Remember it's him not you. Someone once told me that if someone is undeservedly horrible to you it's all about them and their problem, it's nothing to do with you. It's the same with a sexless marriage too. It's not your fault even though you're not perfect because none of us are.

OP I'm in quite a similar situation - we've been married 2 years but together 8 and I was always the one with a much lower libido, mostly because I've been raped and sexually abused in the past and when I'm in a bad place I get awful flashbacks. We've basically fought about this from day one, but my DH doesn't want to talk, or do any intimacy that doesn't lead to sex, so although I'm the one who's started sleeping in the spare room, we're both feeling like the other doesn't care.

We had therapy but the therapist pretty much said that the problem was me withholding something that you should expect in a marriage and that made feel even worse. I've explained the abuse and the things that trigger the flashbacks and make me instantly feel like I want to get away but DH still moans about 'never getting any sex' whilst not giving me any affection and refusing to talk about things that matter to me. When we do have sex we don't kiss and I find it painful more often than not. Sex means different things to us - he once said it's the only thing he considers an expression of love and to me his 'expression of love' is quite the opposite, it's something I grew up thinking I had to comply with in order for anyone to love me.

I've recently found myself talking to someone else who makes me laugh and although it's just chat and he's much younger I look forward to seeing him just because it's nice to see someone light up when they see you instead of never wanting to engage unless sex is involved. I'm not really sure what to do anymore because the idea of having to hand DS over for half the week and miss any of his life makes me feel physically sick.

There was a thred this week about why people ended their relationships and I was reading that avidly because it's so difficult to know if ending it would be something I'd regret. I don't think I'd be able to live like this for another 13 years OP.

Alba - that is all horrendous

I really hope things get better for you.