To ask - is my husband's refusal to have sex is abuse? Grounds for divorce?

[worrieddottcom]

I've posted with my husband's refusal to have sex with me under a different name.

In 2017 - no sex at all and only a few short hugs.

2016 - sex three times.

2015 - twice.

I can't take it anymore.

He's a fabulous dad to our teen child.

He loves me - I know he does.

It's not enough.

I'm ashamed to admit to having a non sexual, emotional affair over the last year. This man makes me feel desirable. It won't go any further than that, but it has given me some comfort.

For the last year or so, my husband has chosen to sleep in another room. This started when he had a heavy cold and snored so much that he kept me awake.

Every night, he stays in his study and plays computer games. I watch tv in another room.

He adores our child and will do everything for him.

I'm depressed and frightened and frustrated.

I don't think I can honour the vows I made at our wedding.

*something that i may or may not do in 2025

Hey i know what hes doing while hes shutting himself away ..........hes time travelling

It's not abuse. If you're pressuring him or blackmailing him for sex then that is abuse! (Not saying that you are)
If this was the other way round the man would get flamed. It's ok that love alone isn't enough for you. Sounds like your marriage has run it's course. Put things in motion to leave. The more amicable the better and you might be able to stay good acquaintances x

Great post Ed. Sums up how i feel too.

Look, you could argue back and forth, until the cows come home, about whether sex is "owed" in a relationship.

At the end of the day, the Op has only had sex 5 times since the start of 2015. The only people (in my mind), who would find this tolerable are either:

• People who don't fancy their Partners, but stay for financial security

• People who don't fancy their Partners and are getting sex elsewhere

• People who are A-sexual

• People with an extremely low libido

• People who are dead

Personally, I would be climbing the walls and could not imagine still being in this relationship, some 4 years later. Because I love sex. And I fancy my DH.

As for all the holier than thou PP, berating Op for having an EA. Ridiculous! Made me think of the Friends Episode, where people express surprise that Rachael as going on a date, and she replies "Yes, I had sex with Ross two years ago, I'm all set".

I doubt Op went onto Ashley Maddison or Illicit Encounters, and found herself a man to flirt with. In all likelihood, a man at work paid her some attention, and given that she hasn't had any, intimacy, attention, flattery or sex in years, she felt suddenly a little bit attractive and flattered. Fuck's sake, is that so hard to comprehend? Unless you are dead from the waist down, I would imagine that was a foregone conclusion. Her "D"H is bloody lucky she didn't take it any further. Instead, she is still trying to fix her marriage. She deserves a medal in my view.

Ugh, and please stop with the "no means no" tripe. It's not that simple, and you know it. You wouldn't trot out that line if your DH said "No, I'm not paying any bills this year. No means no. End of"

Marriage is a partnership, and unless you are both a-sexual when you take your vows (and have agreed there will be no sex), it's changing the goalposts enormously, to take sex off the table after the vows have been said. No amount of "no, means no" makes that acceptable. The person saying it just sounds like a massively selfish arsehole who couldn't give a shit about their partners emotional well being.

"Yes darling, I know we used to be at it like rabbits before we got married, but I've got the diamond ring now, I've got all of the financial trappings of marriage, if you divorce me, I'll take half your assets and pension....and I've decided I no longer want sex with you, no means no, so you can't push me on that....what are you upset for...no means no....boo fucking hoo, suck it up"

@U2HasTheEdge do come out of the 1950's, there's a dear. Marriage does not mean you are entitled to sex. That's why we recognise marital rape now. 🙄

Also - an emotional affair is still cheating no matter how much you say it's not as bad, you either cheat, or you do not. The extent to which you cheat does not detract from the fact that cheating had taken place. So that emotional affair isn't as bad bullshit is well, bullshit. I always find it's the people who have had emotional affairs who claim it's not as bad. 😒

Ugh, and please stop with the "no means no" tripe. It's not that simple, and you know it.

As someone who has suffered sexual abuse. Yes it is.

I wouldn't stay in a marriage where he wouldn't touch me. No you can't say anyone is entitled to sex but equally the one who doesn't want it can't expect their partner to put up with that for ever. It's not fair and they're are perfectly entitled to leave them. There are no winners and one doesn't trump the other.

Great post Ed. I am in a similar situation and feel very much as you describe.

Thanks, Ed - what a kind and helpful post. Thanks for taking the trouble. I'm sorry you are in a similar situation

Obviously, I wouldn't dream of pushing him into sex. However, those who tell me I'm not "entitled" to sex with my partner should try to understand how soul destroying a sexless marriage is.

I actually think that, whilst I am not necessarily entitled to sex, he should at least show some affection rather than a brief embrace if I try and hug him.

BishBoshBashBop

Ugh, and please stop with the "no means no" tripe. It's not that simple, and you know it

As someone who has suffered sexual abuse. Yes it is

And whilst I am sorry you have been a victim, herein lies the fault in your argument. You are comparing sexual abuse with what should be a normal loving marriage. You are comparing apples and oranges.

If a person is being sexually attacked, of course, "no means no"....this phrase was, iirc, a strap line for an anti-rape/rape awareness campaign, some years ago.

It is NOT a line that can be trotted out, within what is meant to be an equal and loving marriage, time and time again, for years on end, without any further explanation.

The dynamic between an attacker and his victim, is not the same as the dynamic between a husband and a wife, who are meant to love one another and who previously have had a good sexual relationship, until one decides they are withdrawing and uses an anti-rape strap line, to shut up the spouse who still wants intimacy.

It's not the same thing. At all.

The dynamic between an attacker and his victim, is not the same as the dynamic between a husband and a wife

I was a wife . He was my husband.

I'm out of this thread.

I hope OP you find whatever it is you are looking for.

Poor OP having to trawl through the amount of stuff posted here about forcing sex and what if OP was a man and what a cow she's been for having her head turned.

Just to be clear

• HE WONT TOUCH THE OP AT ALL, IT'S NOT JUST SEX.
• ITS BEEN GOING ON FOR 15 YEARS.

OP - i'm going to say it again - you can't save this marriage on your own or by sheer will power.

None of us know why he wont touch you and doesn't want sex with you (or anyone else it seems) anymore, but i'd be willing to bet that unless he's a total idiot it if the situation was bothering him it would at some point by now have occurred to him to try to do something about it. So he's not bothered and is happy as he is.

You're not and i don't blame you. You don't need anyone else's permission to leave - but if you want it, here - have mine: You Can Leave OP

(is he on steroids by the way?)

I was a wife . He was my husband

Again, sorry you went through this. If your husband attacked you, of course "no means no".

But....this isn't the scenario for the Op. So, it's not comparable. This is sustained withdrawal of sex and affection, by her DH, with no explanation. He hasn't said "no means no", and if he did, it wouldn't be acceptable. A much bigger conversation is needed.

Op isn't talking about being entitled to sex and really, very very few people on here are. She's talking about wanting her DH to WANT to have sex with her. No one really wants their spouse to feel pressured to have sex, do they.

I think we should acknowledge the difference between it being perfectly usual for a DH or DW to say they don't want sex on occasion, or over a period of time, and not wanting it for years on end. There is a difference here. Whilst someone is free to say no to sex as often and more as long as they wish, when it becomes years and years, the relationship ceases to have one of the very key components of marriage which marks it as different to other friendships or relationships.....and it is entirely acceptable for OP or anyone else to feel disappointed, let down and betrayed by this, if this attitude to sex wasn't clear before.

One thing no-one seems to have mentioned is that people see marriage as a life long commitment. What that means, if one partner refuses sex for years or forever, is no sex ever for their partner. Marriage is supposed to be a context where sex is a feature. It is for this reason that the idea of long term refusal of sex within marriage is different to refusal of sex in other situations. This still doesn't mean the DH should be forced to have sex - OP has clearly said she doesn't want to coerce him, but understanding why this is happening seems key to being able to cope with it and choose whether to live with it or not.

Sometimes my DH wants to have sex when I don't feel very keen. Sometimes I say no and other times, I go ahead and have sex anyway. He doesn't force me or pressure me to do it. The reason I do it,mis because I love him and choose to do all kind of things that might not be my top preference to please him and because I love him - and he does the same for me. So I will wash up, when I don't really want to, because it is the kind thing to do, and I will watch a TVborogramme he likes but I'm not interested in, because he enjoys us watching it together and I'm happy to do it. Sometimes sex is a bit like that too.

I don't know the reasons why Ops DH won't have sex - it maybe highly complicated and it maybe something that is totally impossible for him, in a way it isn't for me. Or it could be that he just doesn't feel like it and for a number of years hasn't ever had a thought about the OP being keen or any desire to meet her needs, because he has only thought about himself. We don't know and it doesn't really sound like OP knows either.

Yes, I agree that no one ever HAS to have sex and no one should ever be made to. However, I do tHine that there are times within long term married relationships when give and take and compromise are needed on all kind of matters, including sex. For some people the compromise is that they have it less than they would like or they have slightly different sex to their ideal. For others this might mean having sex a bit more than they would like. I think we should acknowledge that some level of compromise in this area is often necessary and it isn't wrong or coercive to expect to have to compromise yourself sometimes in this area, but also that the other person will too. I a, talking here about situations where there are no medical or deep psychological reasons which prevent it.

My DH doesn't have any deep reasons not to have sex. Maybe he will one day in the future. Until and if those develop, I would be extremely disappointed if he decided he never ever wanted to have sex, and wasn't willing to have a go on occasion, knowing I would like to have it. I would be disappointed if he totally put his own needs above mine to this extreme level on the issue of sex or any other, because in my mind, our marriage is a partnership and we work together and seek to make both ourselves individually happy, but also the other too, and sometimes compromise is involved. In my mind this is just part of being in a grown up, mature relationship. And please do hear what I'm actually saying and not something else - I'm absolutely agreeing that at any time, anyone has a right to say no to sex. .

@U2HasTheEdge do come out of the 1950's, there's a dear. Marriage does not mean you are entitled to sex. That's why we recognise marital rape now. 🙄

Excuse me? Where did I say marriage meant you were entitled to sex?

This is what I said

I don't have a right to have sex with my husband, but if he decides he doesn't want sex with me I do have the right to know why that is if he wants to continue to be married to me.

And

Nothing entitled about wanting sex with the person you married to.

I have made it quite clear that no one is entitled to have sex. I am certainly entitled to want it, but that doesn't mean I have to get it.

So be a dear and read my posts before you patronise me.

Great post @ChocolateWombat.

Thanks all. to those in unhappy relationships. Bish - I'm sorry if you were abused.

I wouldn't and couldn't force dh to have sex. That would be wrong on every level.

Someone suggested sex therapy - that is a good idea and one I hadn't thought of.

I'm sorry but it feels a bit like some people on this thread want it to be the 1950s when they want and 2018 when they want.

Sex is:

• voluntary and consensual OR
• not at all

Otherwise it's rape.

Marriage is:

• an agreement between two people to try to build a life together
• that can end at any time

If you don't want to be in a marriage:

• try and fix it
• LEAVE

THAT'S IT.

This is modern marriage. You can't start whining about "vows" and "god" and bits of paper and "promises" to be together forever because it's nonsense. If someone posts "the spark has gone from my marriage and I've tried everything, these same posters will tell them to leave!. Marriage is NOT LIFE LONG. It is as long as the two people in the marriage are happy to keep it going. And part of being married in 2018 is accepting that there is a risk that your marriage may not last. A relationship is the two people having it, not some bits of paper you signed 20 years ago.

I'm sorry but It's 2018. If you are unhappy, get divorced.

Women have agency. We cannot force men to have sex with us by classing it as abuse. There is no part of feminism that ever rejects the notion of male bodily autonomy. I don't give a crap about patriarchy or "it's different for women". CRAP. Men can have sex when they want and refuse when they want. You as a woman can LEAVE. You have the right to leave. You don't have the right to label it abuse or force them.

Horrible rapey arguments here.

Spot on @chocolatewombat

I think that what hurts the OP most is the seeming lack of concern and care from her DH. He doesn't seem concerned that she would like physical intimacy or interested in her needs and he doesn't seem interested in discussing or explaining why. I think it is this that is the really upsetting thing - what the long term lack of sex and other emotional involvement signifies about his attitude towards her. He seems totally self absorbed and disinterested in any of her needs.

I think people within marriage can expect their partner to be caring and interested in them and to be willing to make sacrifices and put the other person first sometimes. This isn't about sex at all, but about ones attitude towards the relationship and the other person. When that isn't present to a level where the other person seems to have zero concern or interest, then it is hard to see how the marriage can continue.

ChocolateWombat
My DH doesn't have any deep reasons not to have sex.

Not wanting to have sex is enough of a reason to not have sex! You don't get to rate people's reasons for not having sex with you. And how would you even know? It's just based on this idea that men are simple creatures and want basic things and women are complex and so you know better than them. My god, this is disgusting. Imagine a man posting that. He'd be crucified.

My god, this is disgusting. Imagine a man posting that. He'd be crucified

I’d tell him to leave her and find someone else.

Like it or not, knowing your partner is unhappy with a pretty big part of your marriage and totally ignoring it and their needs is cruel and if they’re not willing to address it then they need to accept their marriage will probably end. This goes for men or woman.

I think there’s an awful lot of projection going on here if people can’t see the simple facts.

Oh calm down holdon

Choclolate wombat attitude is that within marriage compromise can often be needed, and that can apply to sex too.

Your attitude is that marriage is much more of a throw away thing. If you don't like it leave.

I think the marriages that compromise are more likely to last the distance.

And try as I might, I can't see anything that Chocolate has said that is disgusting.

You can't start whining about "vows" and "god" and bits of paper and "promises" to be together forever because it's nonsense

Erm, most vows contain the words "To love and to cherish until death do us part" They also can feature the phrase "with my body I honour thee, forsaking all others"

Yes, of course divorce is now easy, but for goodness sake, let's hope most people do actually mean the vows that they recite on their wedding day.

This attitude of "Oh it's just a piece of paper we signed 20 years ago" and "it's nonsense" is really rather bleak.

How sad would you feel, if someone told you on your wedding day, that 20 years from now, that ^this^ is how jaded you had become?

I think this is killing your self esteem. You deserve better and it's OK to want sex and to be physical with your partner.

I hope you find the courage to leave and find some happiness.