To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

[Flaky]

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

YANBU. I'd insist on DC being moved and tell the teacher you will make a formal complaint if it happens again. I realise that the teacher has to deal with behaviour issues in some way but that's not your problem.

Cheby The police were involved but were very supportive. They had the witness statements of the whole class and the teacher.
DS was not suspended but the incident will be on his school records and he was referred for anger management. He is hoping to join the RAF after 6th form so we will have to see if it goes against him then?

The school knew how bad the other boy was, I think even the staff were scared of him. I know schools have limited resources but you can't inflict disruptive pupils on other students and expect them to deal with them (when adults can't).

Fuck that. There is plenty of time to teach kids resilience, but asking a 6 year old to take on their classmates supervision because the teacher cannot or will not, is wrong.

I had this throughout school. It actually got worse in secondary as I had to board and I was put into the "naughty dorm" to try and improve their behaviour. It did not work. I ended up with anxiety, low self esteem and self harming. I am still unpicking these problems, 20 years later.

Please complain to the teacher. Whilst I hope it won't be as bad for him, he needs to know you have his back.

And BTW my most successful seating arrangements, in terms of everyone working well in Y5/6, were those where the tables were in rows facing the front. The kids liked it too. But the last two headteachers I had made it very clear I was NOT to do this, that I was a dinosaur for even contemplating this, and that all children should be seated in mixed ability groups of four facing each other, where they chatted more and worked less...

Yes there is a reason seating in rows was the preferred classroom arrangement for a long time. It changed during the 70s.

Yeah it must be lovely to be able to properly see and hear the teacher without having to keep twisting round.

All these group tables do is basically multiply the chances of being kicked under the table or being bashed or end up with a chair on the foot.

Course I guess it does mean you can't use 1 sheet between 4..

Resilience? No, I don't see much of that. I see the teachers palming off social guidance onto other pupils (and it obviously going pear shaped) rather than taking on that responsibility themselves.

I would rather see children who for whatever reason don't need that extra input seated together, and for the teacher to focus on those who need more attention.

I see it as short-changing all pupils.

YY - if it works so well, why is it so often the same 'challenging' child from year 7 to 11? Why does the good behaviour never seem to rub off in the 5 years well-behaved children have to put up with these seating plans?

Perhaps some of these "challenging" children have SEN. Perhaps some of these "challenging" children are not getting the support they need. Perhaps they are being bullied themselves. Perhaps they're going through something traumatic.

But yes, of course, just toss them all together in a corner and have done with it so they don't bother the "angelic" children.

To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

OP - You lost my sympathy the moment I read the title. Angelic, indeed.

Serin my son flipped at school too, although less seriously than yours.
He was picked on because he was the laid back hippy of the class. What his tormentors didn't know was that he was strong, fit and well coordinated. One time there was a couple of lads needling him (again) and he just casually, from his seat punched the closest bully's lights out.

School phoned me, but my response was"Good for him". He was left alone after that!

I used to get this at secondary school. It got to the point where at least one teacher would get sharp with me because the person I was sitting with hadn't picked up whatever it was that he was teaching. The person I was sitting with couldn't read (and was incredibly disruptive) - I still have no idea how to explain schoolwork to someone who can't read. Neither did the teacher, I suppose.

Cos none of the well behaved ones have any SN or are being bullied but they are quiet and don't disturb anyone so who cares hey

It is complete bullshit - you wouldn't put up with that crap as an adult at work.

If it was an effective strategy at improving behavior the children behavior woudl actually get better and there would be no need to do this past Y2!

All it is effective at is making it easier for the teacher to ignore the disruptive behavior.

I really don't get the tables set up of class rooms either? Why not have rows so you can all see and hear the teacher without twisting round?

If the teachers cant get the kids to behave its unreasonable of them to expect the other kids to manage it. Its worse if the quiet kids end up being punished or hating school.

Yes plenty of quiet well behaved children have SN.

I also don't like the pairing of a more able child with one who is struggling .It isn't up to the more able to be explain things.. they should be given additional work to stretch them not spend time babysitting other children

YADNBU! A child's job is to sit and learn, not to be a behavioural monitor for less well behaved kids. I'd be in touch with the school asap getting this nipped in the bud. I hated primary, I was a well behaved thoughtful kid and the absolute lack of discipline meant every class was like a war zone, I remember saying to my mum 'what's the point in even going if you can't learn anything?' and growing increasingly apathetic as it was impossible to sit and learn anything due to being surrounded by naughty kids. I feel for kids in that situation so much as when you're little you're trapped and can't change it, yet have to keep being put into the situation no matter how much stress or anxiety it's causing.

Your job as mum is to stand up for your child, you're not being remotely unreasonable and should feel fully justified challenging this.

I still remember having to sit next to a horrible child called Ian in infants school 45 years ago.

He smelled of wee and kept picking his nose and wiping the bogeys on my exercise book 😡

I told the teacher and she said we had to be kind because he couldn’t help it. I’m still a bit cross.

DD had this in secondary, all through science lessons in Y8, 9 and 10. She's tiny, still only just 5' tall (and she's 18 now), and the 'naughty' lads were all enormous. She would get picked up and carried round the classroom regularly. Yes, we complained. No, it made no difference.

Maybe thats an indication that sitting in rows isnt so bad after all?
You can always put desks together for specific group work.

My ds developed panic attacks over school bullying before they did anything constructive. But then it didnt actually last long. A supply teacher thought he should mentor a new kid ( who had already been there 6 weeks!) And forced him ro spend every second with them
He couldn't play with his own friends unless this kid agrreed to as well. He got fed up and left him to play with his own friends one day and was called back by the teacher and made to play with this little bully. It was only after he physically attacked my son in front of the rest of the kids and his normal teacher returned that it was stopped.

My son works hard at school and enjoys learning
Why should he be terrified to go to school cos a teacher says he must ensure another pupil behaves?

There's a fantastic Brain Training puzzle to be had here isn't there?

I'll give you twenty kids names, a layout of tables in groups of four and a potted history of each child. I'll also include their main friends/enemies/frenemies and the ones who have parents who will be straight in to complain before their child's bum hits the seat.

You then give me the solution.

It's a bit like taking the fox/chicken/grain over the river in a boat.....

plenty of quiet well behaved children have SN.

Of course. We should no more be relegating them to a corner or segregating them than the ones that are more disruptive.

I tire of the "naughty children" label and the overflowing bandwagon to put those children away from all the other children. I have both SEN children and a non-SEN child that was usually the "good influence" student in school.

Helpful to remember they are ALL children.

Moknickers
Thats hardly in the same league as being bullied by The person sitting beside you for weeks on end.

I used to have this years ago and it made my DS miserable. I see the logic but don't think it's fair.

How likely is it that all these children have SN though.

And how likely is it that not only do they all have SN they have the exact SN that causes disruption.

They'd be testing the drinking water in alot if these schools if that were the case.

And AN or not if after 6 years they still haven't learnt good behaviour via osmosis and are in fact worse than in reception then how nany upset kids, and seating plans do you think are needed befire you admit it's not working

how nany upset kids, and seating plans do you think are needed befire you admit it's not working

admit what's not working? School? Do you think these children shouldn't have a right to an education?