To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

[Flaky]

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

I would be interested to hear from any people with first hand experience of either ‘being the disruptive child’ for whatever reason. And people who have a disruptive child. We have heard from parents of the ‘hard working’ and those who were the ‘hard working’ and the impact it had on them.

I can’t recall hearing anyone say ‘oh I was a nightmare and sitting next to the good kid straightened me right out and changed my education for the better’. Nor have I heard from any parents saying ‘oh my DC are the disruptive ones and I can confirm that sitting next to a well behaved child who helps them and manages their behaviour has benefited them no end’.

I would be very interested to hear some accounts of how it feels on the other side of the situation.

Children do NOT go to school to be used as behaviour-modifiers for other children by teachers who have been instructed by their superiors to operate some half-baked system based on half-arsed psychology. My son has been [once] used in this fashion and I went in to tell the head-teacher that he was welcome to implement whatever theories he wished, but not at the expense of my own son's education. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

I would be interested to know if there are any studies on the effectiveness of this stratagem, and the impact it has on the well behaved/compliant child who is being used in this way.

My kid’s the one that gets sat next to the ‘good’ kids. He’s not naughty. He’s the youngest in the year and immature with it, with the attention span of a gnat. He benefits hugely from it. Less distractions, modelled focus, he’s made new friends, his learning has improved loads. He’s also very very popular and the quieter more sensitive kids enjoy being included in his general nonsense and having their own in jokes etc.

This thread makes me sad.

Thanks cauliflowerbalti, good to hear a different perspective. Your child sounds lovely and I can see the benefit to both students at. And I guess what it shows is that it ‘can work’ with the right mix of children. However I would guess that your child is not one the well behaved children would be complaining about as it sounds like he is easily influenced in either a positive or nagative light abd therefore sitting with an older and more focused child helps. As we have already identified children and teachers are individuals and there is no one size fits all rule.

What happens to children with ADHD or dyslexia who don’t qualify for their own TA but are acting up? How does sitting by a hard working calmer child change their Ability to think/learn or focus? If a qualified teacher can’t change the way their brain works and the way they learn how is sitting them by a hard working child supposed to help?

Not sayings children with SEN need to be changes by the way. More that if the learning environment of the class room doesn’t work for them and this they are acting up, sitting by a well behaved child surely won’t make a difference?

Children who are easily influenced it makes sense to put next to calmer less disruptive kids.

I haven't read the whole thread but I can see both sides. I can see why they do it, you have to split the naughty ones up from each other or they will just egg each other on, and they have to sit somewhere. But as the parent of an 'angelic' child, she dos complain that when they get put in groups she always gets put with naughty boys, presumably because she is supposed to be a calming influence on them. However, it makes her cross because she says they just don't let her talk or take any notice of her (she is very quiet at school but has very strong ideas of her own, these boys probably just see this quiet mouse of a girl and reckon they can steam roller her into doing what they want). I have considered going to speak to her teacher about this. I think it's not fair for the good ones to have to spend their life taking responsibility for a naughty child. When teachers do this, they do need to mix it up a bit.

You need to do what's best for your child first and foremost, they are at school for a long time and deserve the best education they can get. I wouldn't be a teacher these days for love nor money but the good kids want to learn and do their best - yes non of them are perfect but why should they be dragged down by the trouble causers and bullies. We've been lucky upto now, dd in yr 8 and have had minimal problems - she's bright and does well and is suffering because of it - she had the class clowns put next to her and its almost destroyed her. It really isn't fair at all.

Stick to your guns and fight tooth and nail, kids may be resilient but they don't forget xx

my daughter has ASN l /we repeatedly asked for her to be kept away from a boy who bullied her multiple times and her teacher kept putting him next to or near her

Yeh, I can imagine. As a parent I would never complain. teachers think it out carefully. Imagine doing tables for a wedding every five weeks. Suck it up. Also, I know from chatting with a couple of friends that their perception of their child as perfect is an erroneous one quite often. Their child might not be traditionally disruptive but there are plenty of other ways to be tiresome.

Agh. This CAN work well depending on the individuals involved (and I guess the specific class/atmosphere etc, if that makes sense...)

But so often it is to the detriment of the often quieter, 'well-behaved' child (though, again, not always, I accept...)

My school in Y9 decided to add an extra class so class sizes were smaller. For reasons I have never quite worked out, they put the known 'worst behaved' kids in our half of the year in this class together (my year was known for issues with behaviour), and then called my little group (about 5 of us) aside and said they needed to balance it out with 'a group of nice girls'.

Funnily enough, it didn't work. My life was made hell in Y10/11, because I was painfully shy and quiet, don't participate aloud anyway, now in a class with those who made me so desperately unhappy, and turning to self-harm to cope. Instead, I ended going from 100% attendance in lessons to not managing a single week of Y11 in all lessons (instead, sitting with our asst. head) because I just could not cope with them anyway.

An extreme example maybe. But being quiet and well-behaved does not mean children can cope with or benefit from this either. And it is important for schools to think of both sides.

Apologies for tangent/rant. It is something I am very sensitive to, but so often quiet well-behaved children stop being noticed in school.

livnes (and others on this thread who have had negative experiences at school). x

In some schools the seating arrangement will change throughout the day depending on the subject. Children may sometimes be seated in groups of ability or sometimes where they work best.
You need to trust the teachers decision. The teacher has probably spent a large amount of time observing where the children work best. If it’s not working for your child then speak to the teacher.
@STD there has been research into different abilities and children with SEN working alongside each other. Montessori’s method is one of them.
@ploppy you have a good point regarding children with SEN and yes you’re right the seating arrangement may never work for them but unfortunately if there isn’t a 1:1 for that child it is the teachers role to also ensure that child gets the best out of their learning.
I genuinely have this conversation everyday. I understand where everyone is coming from. I see this from both sides. But both sides have the right to an education and also our time. I want all of them to achieve. I don’t want to only push the higher achievers and at the same time I don’t want to only focus on bringing the lower achievers to where they should be be. I want to see progression throughout the class.

To be honest the reason I specifically chose my daughters school was for this reason alone. I knew that the school I chose would have to spend a minimal amount of time on behaviour management, meaning more time teaching and learning. Getting this place meant the world to me as I know it is a huge issue and struggle for a lot of parents. If you haven’t got that option then you will need to trust the teachers decision.

Sorry for all the posts but in school I was highly disruptive but also a very high achiever. I was constantly moved to stop me from talking, it never stopped me from chatting but it did stop me from chatting shit and actually discuss the work rather than what happened on the weekend.

This is why parents like grammar schools.

Thank you to someonessnackbitch. Interesting reading.

To be honest this is the reason I a considering keeping DD an only child and investing in a private school for secondary education or tutoring for 11 plus. (We couldn’t afford it for 2 children). It’s not the smaller classes or the better facilities I want to buy. It’s the behaviours, zero tolerance for disruptive pupils and positive attitude to learning I will be paying for (although I appreciate I private school comes with its own - different - issues)

It’s not just sitting next to disruptive pupils day on day that affects you. Its having them there full stop. Especially when there are several in each class. My teacher friends actually refer to the odd class as a ‘crowd control class’. Meaning the best they can hope for is keeping relative control over a class and no hope of teaching the ones who want to learn 🙁 and these are experienced teachers in a not great secondary school, who are taking classes that other teachers have been pulled from and supply won’t cover.

I asked my DD be moved as she was sat with a disruptive child and felt that she couldn't get her work done. It wasn't benefiting him either, he made no other friends and would follow her around on breaks too. It's not fair on either child.

@ploddy your teacher friends are right. It is so difficult when there a quite a few in one class. It is so disheartening and also a huge amount of work. I definitely applaud the teachers in these types of classes.
Depending on where you live. I’m Inner London and the schools in my area are very much like that. My child’s school isn’t private but it is fantastic. I cannot explain how luck I feel. My child is easily led, very talkative, doesn’t like to listen and can be a bit of a pest but this school has changed her behaviour. I guess I’m one of those parents who had a demonic child but with the right school, surrounded by well behaved children and the right support she is now ‘angelic’

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius
Not a problem.
Some of the experiences on here are awful, but in my honest opinion I think that's a bigger issue than seating strategy.

Equally, i think it's worth pepple considering that 'disruptive' can mean any number of things. In the last few years I hsve had:

1. lazy/coasting/not disruptibr as such but an attitude whuch damages their learning
2. silly clown like behaviour from a child who had such low literacy levels that messing on was a defence mechanism
3. sly 'good' child who subtly wound up less smart students who didn't realise they were being played

4.apathetic disruptive studnets who hated school so wanted to ruin it for everyone else 5.nice students who were easily led (especially if one of the big players in the year was there because some naughty students have a worrying hold over others) 6.nice but chatty students who need reminding to STFU

1. a rude argumentative student who seemed to love trying to get into 'but what's the point?' arguments, correct my knowledge of tjr exam spec with his own made up rules, make stupid comments after other students have answers and generally act like an idiot
2. student who was a bully and was really quite unpleasant

And more to be fair.

Now sitting student 2 next to a hardworking low/middle student (not for the child to be a TA before someone has a pop) meant that weaker student felt safe to share ideas, was on the end of a row near to my desk so i could hear the conversations and intervene etc. Their disruption dropped within a couple of weeks and they were a lovely asset to the group.
Would I do that with student 8 or 4? No.

Student 7 considered themselves to be better than me and everyone else in the class but spent a lot of time chatting shit. So i put them on a table with 3 high fliers. They soon realised that being tjr big 'i am' doesn't work if you've got no substancem
But I wouldn't have put a week child there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone in their head has an image of 'disruptive', but poster 1 might be thinking chatty silly student who witj good seating and classroom management will be fine after a few week whilst poster 2 is thinkinb nasty bully who harms other children and ruins lessons. It might explain some wires crossing on here.

*weaker child

Thanks maisypops. That is a helpful post to generate understanding. I am beginning to see the otherside of things much more clearly. But it doesn’t make me think that I should leave my child in state secondary if I can help it.

Not a problem ploppy.

I do wonder if some crossed wires were happening because people had a different image of 'disruptive' in their head. So parents of 'silly easily led' children were getting annoyed at people saying they didn't want their child near them. People who have experienved a child who harms others were getting annoyed when others were saying that sometimes you jist end up witj a chatty one.

I had all those students behaving in a reasonable time frame (some were harder nuts to crack) and even my class from hell were getting there.
But i have seen some colleagues really struggle (particularly when the disruptive to non disruptive balance went too far the wrong way and when disruptive students had parents who would back their DC over the school. You know the type but they were ONLY... I'm not sending them to a detention for... It was JUST... Maybe if you engaged them then they wouldn't... Of course thry argued back! Why shouldn't thry challenge pointless rules?)

If you get a school like mine then there's almost no differenve between us and private (our unsupportive parents tend to be more in line with the parent problems my friends have in private). If you have a school where I used to work then you couldn't pay me to send my kids there.