To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

[Flaky]

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

[crunchymint]

I agree seek, quiet academic children deserve to reach their full potential as well. Many don't.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

Oh i am very sorry flaky

I should also say that you should absolutely complain to the school and YANBU

[Themymblesdaughter]

I agree with the op. This happened to me when I was 11.
Moved to a new school halfway through the year. I was hard working and fairly quiet but sociable.
The school having read my reports decided to put me in the 'naughty' class (they admitted this to us later) so my influence would rub off. Unfortunately I was outnumbered and was bullied mercilessly for being 'geeky' etc.
When my parents finally went in and complained the school admitted what they'd done and agreed to move me to a 'normal' class. But the damage was done. Wasn't helped by the new teacher telling all my new class mates what had happened even what names I had been called .
My self esteem and confidence were destroyed. It's no exaggeration to say it took me years to recover and wasn't until university that I realised maybe I wasn't actually a bad person or a lesser person.
I realise teachers have a very tough job and can't please everyone but I think they have to be very careful before using strategies like this. A different more resilient child might have coped but it didn't teach me anything except to hate myself.

[taratill]

My DD has had this issue for years. She is now being assessed for ASD. She is a quiet child and I can honestly say it has had an adverse effect on her learning.

I can understand why teachers do it (to a degree) and I can understand that teachers can become annoyed if they are constantly challenged about seating arrangements in their classroom BUT if the child is so badly effected that they DON'T WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL then it is clearly not working and the teacher should take the needs of the child who is being effected by this very seriously indeed.

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

Agree with OneFlew - what this also does is perhaps unhelpfully cement the other child's reputation and identity in ways which are not necessarily of benefit to them.

My daughter was in a German class where none of her friends were in the same group, and repeatedly told she had to 'help' the girl sitting next to her, who very much did not want to be helped. Not only was this futile, and unfair to DD who slipped further and further behind, it did nothing for her relationship with the girl she was supposed to be helping.

Other subjects which the school valued were not managed in this way - just MFLs, but that's a different story.

[drspouse]

Thing is if it actually worked the same kids wouldn't still be mucking about in yr 6.

You have no idea how much worse they might have been if they had permanently been sitting next to the other children who are always mucking about.

I am very grateful that if my DS is sitting next to another child he bounces off e.g. on the carpet where they choose where to sit, the teacher moves him if he and the other child misbehave. It really does help him to pay attention if he is not being distracted by someone else that is either egging him on or he is egging on.
If they are all trying to listen to a story, he will calm down and therefore the whole class can listen if sat in a calmer children's area.
If he's messing about then nobody can concentrate.

(and before anyone asks, we are impatiently awaiting an assessment for SEN. "Telling him not to" has not worked).

[Hoppinggreen]

When we were looking at Secondary schools for DD I spoke to the member of staff at one School who was telling me how they didn’t put the children into ability sets but adopted this approach as it benefitted the struggling and high achieving kids. Actually what she said was “ the theory was” not that it actually worked. I spoke to some teacher friends who said that in their opinions it did NOT benefit the higher achievers at all. Also, the staff member in question was entering her own child for the 11+ rather than expose her high achieving child to this “theory”
That School has just been deemed inadequate by Ofsted who were particularly scathing on the report about provision for higher achievers.
I want ALL children to achieve their potential but I would never jeopardise my own child’s learning for a theory I ( and many members of the teaching profession) think is unproven at best.

[Wolfiefan]

No child is angelic!
And YABU to expect certain children to have to sit alone for their whole school lives.
If your child is being picked on or hurt or upset by certain behaviour then deal with that. Keep a record and ask the school how they plan to deal with it. But you can't dictate the seating plan.

[drspouse]

If all the "naughty" children are in one corner they still disrupt the class. Only worse than if they are distributed throughout the room.

[PiecesOfHate]

YANBU.
This happened to one of my DDs in year 6. There was a table at the front where two quite naughty boys sat, and first of all one of DDs nice friends had to sit with them, but her parents complained and she was moved.

Then DD was put there and the teacher said she was happy with the arrangement and that this was the final arrangement. I asked for DD to be moved as she was unhappy, had no one to talk to or work with (there was always plenty of partnered and group work).
Why should bright and/or well-behaved children have to scaffold those that aren't? They deserve to be challenged, stimulated and have fruitful partnerships too.

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

Mixed ability groups have been found to be beneficial to everyone except the highest achievers.

We were told this about German, but with the last three words conveniently missed out.

[LoveShouldBeALockedDoor]

YANBU OP however I understand why teachers do this. It also happens to my DD on occasion.
In your case I would say something because its obviously having a very negative impact on your son.
In my DDs case it works well for the teacher because my kid ignores the naughty behavior and encourages them to get involved in the work during group work, If the kid was outright nasty or violent I think it would be different but most of the children my DD is made to sit with have been known for time wasting or messing around.

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

four words, sorry.

[endofthelinefinally]

This happened to all my dc at some time or other. It was extremely stressful. My 7 year old got really distressed and anxious because he was tasked with teaching a child with learning difficulties how to add up and take away and she just couldnt grasp it.
Dd came home covered in bruises due to naughty boy kicking her under the desk. Naughty girl spat in her face. That was the end.
We took her out and sent her to a lovely private school where the pupils sat in rows facing the teacher.
I cant stand this sitting at tables system.

[Lovelybigboots]

If all the "naughty" children are in one corner they still disrupt the class. Only worse than if they are distributed throughout the room.

Not always. As I said in my previous post I have done this in my classroom. I put the children who (not SEN) found it tricky to get in with others together then made them a focus where I kept a close eye on them rewarding good working behaviour and zero tolerance to nonsense. I would move away from them frequently to ensure I could observe the rest of the class, but made sure I looked over frequently. 9/10 this worked really well with the year 5/6 children I taught. I appreciate younger children might need a different approach.

[Serin]

Are you going to ring the school Flaky?

I feel so sorry for your DS, he should not be made to feel that he doesn't want to go to school because of a policy the teacher has implemented. The "naughty" child is getting all the rewards here!

We had something similar with DS1, he is a big rugby playing lad but kind, quiet and very well behaved. For years he was sat next to a lad who was an utter thug (and is now in a YOI) because DS1 was the only kid who wasn't afraid of him. He wound DS1 up for years and sadly DS cracked in class one day (when the other boy attacked their pregnant teacher) and DS1 beat him up so badly that the school called an ambulance.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

The fact that they might have been worse is hardly a defence for continuing a strategy that is still not producing an acceptable result.

There's a good chance they are worse after the six years because having been sat with kids who know better than to bother the teacher has meant that actually they have as good as gotten away with the nonsense for 6 years

[Cheby]

This happened to me in Y6, decades ago now. I was put on a table for two, with the class dickhead. He spent 2 months teasing, namecalling, bullying (which spilled onto the playground as well), he pinched me and flicked my skin under the table constantly. The teacher essentially took a vulnerable (had already been subject to some teasing at school), quiet, hardworking child, isolated me from everyone else (all the other tables were for 4 or more) and offered me up to a vicious little bully.

I felt like I was being punished but I had no idea what for. I knew the ‘right’ thing was to tell my mum or a teacher but ikr a lot of children who are targeted, I felt it was somehow my fault, and I didn’t want to make it worse by being a snitch. So I suffered for 2 months in silence, until I finally burst into tears at home and said I wasn’t going back to school.

DM went into school and the teacher moved us the next day. They apologised to us. But FFS, teachers should realise this happens. If you’re going to implement this strategy it should be explained to the ‘good’ kid and they should be spending a few minutes a week 1:1 with them so the teacher can check they are not being adversely impacted.

After my experience, I’m sorry to say that I’m of the view that the ‘naughty’ kids should be stuck on a table together. If they want to disrupt each other then let them get on with it. I won’t be allowing this to happen to my quiet and sensitive DD at school.

[HappyPsychopath]

I cant stand this sitting at tables system.

Me neither. It seems far more sensible to sit children on individual desks, as you say, facing the teacher.

[Cheby]

Serin what happened to your DS? I hope he wasn’t suspended. Good for him, defending his teacher. I know violence isn’t ideal but I’d be bloody proud of Home

[Cheby]

Him, even!

[theEagleIsLost]

As a child who struggled as it later returned out I had dyslexia I hated it. My parents did try and point of the distractions were an issue for me but apparently I had to learn to cope though same teacher then complained I had poor concentration and sometime failed to finish work but that wasn’t anything to do with constant interruptions and my stuff being nicked off me .

All three of mine have had it done to them.

DD1 usually coped but then was sat next to a child she couldn't cope with and a teacher who refused to listen - the stress on her was enormous we endured weeks of meltdowns at home - till day I was due to see head and she had one at school. That shocked them all and resulted in a move but teacher was an arse to DD1 and me all that year. By end of year we were worried about DD1 about start of OCD type behaviour – new year and new teacher with a week she was back to normal.

DS when younger they moved fairly quickly as they had two disruptive children instead of one – as he got older it doesn’t bother him and he is a positive influence.

DD2 has it done a lot but generally is so popular she gets them working – though she did complain recently that rest of her group had been hard to get working.

I see why it's done and sometimes I think it can work but some children just can't cope with it and I think that need to be recognised.


Go in and talk to the teacher focusing solely on your child and their problems -and see if they will move them. Unfortunately I had a teacher that didn't work with but I think that was bad luck.

[Tringley]

we aim to teach resilience.

WTAF? That's not how you teach resilience. That's how you destroy it. All studies on resilience show that it derives from supportive relationships, adaptive capacities, and positive experiences. It is lowered by constant exposure to stressful situations, especially in childhood. Fucking hell, you need to educate yourself or get a job where you aren't damaging children on a daily basis with fucking backwards notions.

[TheMadGardener]

Ex-primary teacher here. Seating plans are a NIGHTMARE! I used to do a major reshuffle every half term and sometimes I would just look at my classroom plan and my list of names and it was like doing the most complicated maths puzzle!

I.E. "now, A and B have to be as far apart as physically possible...C can't be anywhere near A, B or D...E and F have to stay at the front or they can't see the board...G has to stay where he is because it's the only corner of the room where I can fit in a chair for his 1:1 TA without her head blocking sight lines to the board for kids...H can't be on the same table as J otherwise J's mum will be back in the head''s office complaining tomorrow...K and L need the same type of support so it's much easier if they're on the same table where I can work with them together...M really deserves a break from sitting with N because she's been very patient with him..."

Eventually you achieve a finished plan, look at it and realise that A has now ended up too close to B so you change it again. The next day you implement the new seating arrangement. The children moan about being moved and you immediately realise that A and J sitting next each other is going to drive you insane, so you make another change. The next day at least two parents come in to complain about the new seating arrangements. Eventually everyone gets used to the new arrangement, just before it is time for the next reshuffle...

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Yy tring

If it was about resilience they would sit them.next to eachother