To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

[Flaky]

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

I got this at school. Paired with the 'difficult' boys from ages 5 to 11. Underlying some of this ridiculous notion back then was always the idea that girls kept boys calmer. Its just stifling to girls.

Trust me it does not work. It set me up for years of names like spod and boff and four eyes, very original...
Its bloody exhausting being 8 years old and wanting to get on with work, while being pinched hard, having test answers copied from you, sneered at in the playground, or even just the ones who simply could not just shut up and sit still. I was a kid, and expected to help fix that?
I think back because of this thread and my mind is bloody boggling.

Yes all children deserve to reach their full potential, including quiet and well behaved kids.

My son is best friends with a ‘naughty’ child. I have no idea if this will affect his learning in the future but I think it’s a really good idea to keep the kids on a rotating seating plan. Then none gets too comfortable with their mates and the mismatched children get some respite.

Who said anything about not being entitled to an education?

If they are being disruptive their needs aren't being met.

They continue to not be met even when you sit them next to quiet kid chosen specifically because he or she won't bug the teacher after themselves time of being sent back to their desk after trying to explain they were prevented from seeing the board.

If your child can't function in a normal classroom environment then your child has an issue.

After the second time

Then none gets too comfortable with their mates and the mismatched children get some respite.

And the teacher gets moaned to by the parents every time the seating plan changes

If it wrong to put the 'annoying' child next to the 'angelic' child then it is wrong to put the annoying child next to another annoying child. Unless you think only the angelic ones matter?
The fair way is to mix it up on a regular basis.

I have 2 SEN kids , neither have ever been disruptive in the classroom. They have been placed next to naughty kids though (mix of sen and not) and this has increased their anxiety and affected their ability to learn.

How likely is it that all these children have SN though.
And how likely is it that not only do they all have SN they have the exact SN that causes disruption.

Disruptive behaviour is often due to lack of support. A school that is not supportive of one child with SEN is likely to be lacking in support for other children with SEN.

They'd be testing the drinking water in alot if these schools if that were the case.

I'll just ignore that as the snark that it is.

And AN or not if after 6 years they still haven't learnt good behaviour via osmosis and are in fact worse than in reception then how nany upset kids, and seating plans do you think are needed befire you admit it's not working

Osmosis? You think a child with SEN will pick up good behaviour via osmosis?? And you're surprised that a child with SEN that has poor support in place is worse as they get older, the work gets more difficult, and more is expected of them?

DearShirt I think we’ve established the teachers get moaned at regardless so i still think it’s a good idea. Used to happen to us at secondary and it broke up the cliques nicely.

And the other child if course finds everything easy

If your child can't function in a normal classroom environment then your child has an issue.

Not sure how to take this. Are you clarifying or what here? Because I can't figure which way you're going on this.

Perhaps some of these "challenging" children have SEN. Perhaps some of these "challenging" children are not getting the support they need. Perhaps they are being bullied themselves. Perhaps they're going through something traumatic.

All valid reasons why the disruptive/non-disruptive set up fails so many times - but should it be the responsibility of another child to fill in the gaps in SEN support, try to moderate their behaviour (without training), take the fall out from trauma or be the verbal/physical/emotional punchbag for a bullied child who is trying to take back some power?

Disruptive children can be disruptive for so many reasons, many of which they have little to no control over. While I have huge empathy for them, I would no more accept their negative behaviours raining all over my dc than I ever expected another parent to accept their dc dealing with my ds's ptsd episodes (his episodes were for me, dh, the teachers and ds's therapist to deal with).

So if a child can't function in a classroom environment where they are constantly interrupted, called names, etc - then surely a teacher should take their needs into account? Not just tell them to stfu, which developing resilience in practice seems to mean.

I wonder how many of the people complaining about disruptive, possible SEN children spend time pushing their schools to properly fund their SEN support budgets, to provide activities and TAs and things that benefit children with SEN. Or is it a "it doesn't affect my child,so I don't notice" attitude.Because guess what...this is how it can affect your child.

Thing is that it's not uncommon for "good quiet studious" children to by unwilling to tell others when things are bad. I speak from my own experience and my children. You don't like to complain, you try and cope, you get on with it. You cover up how miserable you are.

I suppose this is the "resilience" that was mentioned upthread. The lesson that you are not very important, that life is shit but you have no options.

I saw a thing about something else the other day. Unrelated. About how putting women prisoners into mens prisons would be a really good idea as it might have a calming effect on the men, soften a hypermasculine culture etc. There was zero mention or consideration of the effect on the women which obviously wouldn't bear thinking about. I wonder if this is the same sort of idea. A LOT of the posters on here are talking about this happening to their daughters. Just an observation.

That's exactly it andro

It literally helps no one.

Yes they may not be being deliberately wound up by kids who get off on triggering any issues. But if they are stopping the other child working then their needs are still not being met. Unfair on both kids

Do they not all get moved around week to week? In my DS's class (year 3) the teacher moves them all every 2 weeks, so that they're not always sat next to the same person. Yes, sometimes DS gets sat next to the more disruptive kids, and sometimes not. But, at least that way it's fair for everyone, and DS has to learn how to work with all sorts of people, not just his closest friends.

Used to move pupils but...
For a short period only
Not to a place where I could foresee upset.

Sometimes I’d threaten to move X but then say, loudly, that the people in the proposed place didn’t deserve X

Fortunately I usually had side benches where pupils could be kept away from others - and get a stiff neck for their sins!

I worked in one school where we had to produce boy/girl seating plans. Difficult for GCSE Electronics where you, sadly, had just a couple of girls.

I disagreed with such plans as they tended to disadvantage girls.

Trouble was that if I didn’t do this I would be in bother. I paid lip service to it. Not a happy school.

Osmosis? You think a child with SEN will pick up good behaviour via osmosis??

That's not what the poster was saying! What they were saying is that what ever the reason for the undesirable behaviour, if sitting them next to a 'good' child hasn't changed the behaviour the first/second/third time (which it won't with AN/SEN in general because they need specialist support), how long are the teachers going to keep going with a failed strategy.

The osmosis comment was probably a frustrated swipe at 'how are they expecting these 'good children' to fix the problem? I.e. if a child needs help, their NOT going to pick it up via osmosis

Good point GingerIvy

Inadequate SEN Provision affects everyone

Yes andro that was what I was saying. It's never going to work or it would have dine already.

Hiding the issue by picking kids who just won't bother you with it is not supporting the child.

You just have 2 miserable kids who for differing reasons are not meeting their capabilities instead of 1

I think a lot of people are showing a basic lack of understanding as to why these outings happen.

It's not so that good behaviour "rubs off". It's not a "strategy".

It is simply that everybody has to sit somewhere