Yes another trans thread

[NewMummy579]

I'm struggling to understand this documentary I'm watching on catch up called sex map of Britain 'the pregnant dad'. Two trans men in a relationship one of which is pregnant. He is having a home birth to avoid pronouns in the hospital and being wrongly identifies as 'she' or 'her' and struggling with body image now he has a pregnant belly.

If you are born female but believe you are in the wrong body and transition to live as a Male, surely it's not being unreasonable to expect that you therefore do not partake in female biological acts like pregnancy and giving birth??

The couple are quoted as saying 'oh one of us had to delay hormone treatment and bite the bullet in getting pregnant if we wanted to have a family'. If you both identify as a male couple then why not adopt as many gay couples do and give a child a good home?

After the baby is born, they refer to 'chest feeding' instead of breast feeding and say it's ridiculous when he needs to be put on the birth certificate as 'mother' since they gave birth, rather than as 2 fathers.

I'm perhaps being unreasonable and openly don't understand all aspects of this complicated gender topic but I'm seeing it a bit like having your cake and eating it - you either either identify/live as one sex or another and not both when it suits circumstance?

Well adoption isn't exactly that simple is it? I would imagine that this is one of those situations when he didn't want to get pregnant for the reasons you stated above but his desire for a family was stronger than his aversion to his body. Women do all kinds of things they don't want to do to have a baby. So do men. Getting pregnant is apparently one of them now. I do find the fear of pronouns a bit silly though. I understand that it's a sore point but if you think that you are mature enough to have children you should be mature enough to ignore words you don't like.

Me and my partner watched this and whilst I’m fully supportive of the trans community I think the documentary made it seem as though they were quite selfish in that they just talked about themselves. Not a lot was talked about on the baby being a blessing etc, it was all about them.
And when they were devistated they’d have to be listed as mother and father on the birth certificate.
Well of course the baby has a birth mother. Baby didn’t just come from nothing.

I think perhaps they are doing it so the child is biologically theirs. As they are still able to produce children together they are going through the natural birth route. I imagine all it comes down to is that they are still able to have a child of their own together, and while it's still possible they are choosing to do so.

I do think it is wrong for them not the consider the head fuck for their child in not having a 'mother'. We all have a biological mother, it is the one thing as humans we all share and it is important. Look at the huge efforts adopted people and abandoned children go to find their birth mother. To wish to erase 'mother' from their child's birth certificate seems to be removing their child's inalienable right to name and identify the woman who gave birth to them.

So on that basis, I suspect they will fail to be adequate parents as they already wish to put their own emotional needs above their child's basic right. What can you do - there are a lot of shit parents in the world.

Knitted breasts (love that name!) they are both transmen - so only biologically related to the man who gave birth, they used sperm donation x

Thrn she posts a pic without the black clothes and funky make up to show her “cis” look. Thank god my high school kids think it’s attention seeking bollocks.

'Cis look'??? What does that look like I wonder? Does the vanity and narcissism of these people hold no bounds?

bambini I think it's a pretty daft requirement tbh, but it is a requirement of accessing any help at a GiC.

Navigator it's not 'hiding' anyone, the child will know that dad is their biological parent and gave birth. It's hardly gonna mess the kid up just because he doesn't call the parent that birthed him 'mum', it will just be his normal.

What I don’t understand is if you’ve got body dismorphia in any other sense or I’ve had it several times in my life, you are normally sent to a psychiatrist to be cured. When I’ve had it (for eating disorders) the thought process was always, you think you’re fat when you’re not and we can cure that through psychiatry. When it’s a female thinking they should be a man apparently it’s completely different and they should start operating. And if I’d gone about telling everyone to call me fat because I believed it, would that be acceptable in the same way it’s apparently acceptable to demand which pronoun is used before you’re actually the related gender?

This programme for me really highlighted how some people shouldn’t just be given the go ahead to declare themselves the opposite gender. The female in this programme was confused. If she wasn’t confused she would have accepted she was destined to be a man and all that came with it. Not halfway house with a baby then ‘chest feeding’ and the icing on the cake for me was when she wouldn’t show her chest. She chose to cover it. Why? Men choose not to? And women are campaigning to be able to whilst breastfeeding as well anyway.

The lady sounded super confused and also a little like she hadn’t had any attention all her life and this was her chance to shine. I want to give birth as a male. Has no one broken it to her?! And the bit where she was my man understands. My mum would understand a lot of strange things I do that no one else does too. Doesn’t mean whole of society will...

Also no appreciation for the confusion society has when she chooses not to change into a man and be pregnant yet still want to be referred to as a man. One or the other. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest if someone changes their gender as long as they actually do that. This halfway house situation is just causing a lot of confusion both legally and for society as a whole.

And yet again, the only thing that transmen are famous for - is giving birth

While transwomen get to be first on the front line, first billionaire businesswoman etc.

Funny that

No doubt we will have fantastic record breaking performances by 'women' in the next Olympics

My nan* not man understands!

I didn't watch the program but hope they didn't have a girl. Can you imagine the misogyny she will be subjected to? Can you imagine what would happen if she grows up lesbian, being parented by a mum who hates herself this much?

Correction- being raised by 2 Mums who want to be something they are not. Child abuse.

Navigator it's not 'hiding' anyone, the child will know that dad is their biological parent and gave birth. It's hardly gonna mess the kid up just because he doesn't call the parent that birthed him 'mum', it will just be his normal.

Not having a mother can never be made 'normal' for a child and nor should it be attempted. We all have a mother, it is a massive head fuck for a child to expect them to pretend otherwise.

I’m really curious as to what that really entails. Is it just a change of nsme and pronouns? Because other then that I can’t see what would be different from living as androgynous lesbian women.

Yes, this comes back to the question of what aspects of the gender they transition to trans people identify with. To me, having a baby is one of the few things women can do and men can't - so I would understand if a transwoman really wanted to carry a baby, but surely a transman would, by very definition, reject the whole thought of it.

Beansonapost
I still hold true it is a mental illness!

This. Agreed. By its very nature, identifying as something you are not is clearly a mental illness. If I identified as a car, as The Pope, as a planet, or as Marie Antoinette, I'd be considered mentally ill. This is no different.

And identifying as a man then temporarily putting that deep-seated and apparently immovable 'natural' state on hold to have a kid, then switching it back on again, is downright laughable and demonstrates what a ridiculous sham the whole transgender crap is about.

There are thousands and thousands of lesbian Mums who are happy being lesbisn women. Who are not mentally ill, who do not hate their bodies or themselves. Very different kettle of fish to this couple who are very confused about who they are and who hate the undeniable biological truth that they are women. I speak as a lesbian.

I think it is attention seeking and I don't care if that offends anybody.

So will they tell yhe child it doesn’t have a mother? That a man, their dad gave birth to them? That is a bit of a headfuck. To totally erase the word/idea of mother. But this is the new ideology being pushed - and Trans organisations are gatting access to primary schools to teach exactly that.

I'm an oldish poster (kids grown up), bit old fashioned. Have tried to be 'cool' about the whole (confusing to me) thing, but this just takes the biscuit! I mean, what do they want exactly and what about the child? In the last few years I've had to get my head around dd stating she's lesbian, then bi, then (another word I've forgotten) which means she has relationships with a number of different partners. Her best friend is changing into a man, her other friend has DID which means she has multiple personalities and changing her body parts into a man because the strongest alter ego is male. (I know this is a condition and not the friend's fault but takes some getting used to when she 'changes' right in front of yiur eyes, even voice and accent! On top of all this, trying to explain it all to autistic son who doesn't like 'grey' areas. Now this, transmen being pregnant and chestfeeding! Dh and I don't know whether we're coming or going and contemplating going to live in a cave! oh, and telling ds to look it all up on the internet cos our brains have had it!

Unfortunately you get knobhead a in all walks of life.

Dh and I don't know whether we're coming or going and contemplating going to live in a cave

I believe that 'Shady Pines' retirement home for the confused is the abode of choice on the feminism board. We have arranged a gin still and for the smuggling in of other contraband. You are welcome to join us.

It's a wholly confusing issue!

I am and always will be for whatever people choose that they want to be. I'll call you whatever name you like, treat you in a courteous and respectful manner, as I would to any other human being. Where I do draw the line is using the term 'she'. I refuse to see why I should drop rational and scientific fact for the sake of another persons feelings.

In 2000 years time when your bones are being dug up by an archaeologist, sent for testing... The results would be that it was a man. There is no way around that. There's no 'well he believed he was a woman so obviously it's a female'.

It's yet another yardstick as to how out of control the 'PC' culture has come over the past few years. I've even listened to arguments claiming that gender doesn't even exist. How can that be? At its most basic level, 'male' and 'female' are simply identifying markers for the differences between 2 subsets of human beings. Of course there are people born with an amalgamation of both, classed as 'intersex' but that is a true genetic issue as to biological development, not a feeling or thought as to what you identify closer to.

To boil it down, when did perceived offence stop being a case of 'I'm not really arsed what you think' to 'you've totally destroyed and oppressed my existence, change your world view for me?!'

Madness at it's finest.

To boil it down, when did perceived offence stop being a case of 'I'm not really arsed what you think' to 'you've totally destroyed and oppressed my existence, change your world view for me?!'

Twitter.

Some of these comments are disgusting and, once again, the discrimination against the trans community by the people on mumsnet is abhorrent.