Yes another trans thread

[NewMummy579]

I'm struggling to understand this documentary I'm watching on catch up called sex map of Britain 'the pregnant dad'. Two trans men in a relationship one of which is pregnant. He is having a home birth to avoid pronouns in the hospital and being wrongly identifies as 'she' or 'her' and struggling with body image now he has a pregnant belly.

If you are born female but believe you are in the wrong body and transition to live as a Male, surely it's not being unreasonable to expect that you therefore do not partake in female biological acts like pregnancy and giving birth??

The couple are quoted as saying 'oh one of us had to delay hormone treatment and bite the bullet in getting pregnant if we wanted to have a family'. If you both identify as a male couple then why not adopt as many gay couples do and give a child a good home?

After the baby is born, they refer to 'chest feeding' instead of breast feeding and say it's ridiculous when he needs to be put on the birth certificate as 'mother' since they gave birth, rather than as 2 fathers.

I'm perhaps being unreasonable and openly don't understand all aspects of this complicated gender topic but I'm seeing it a bit like having your cake and eating it - you either either identify/live as one sex or another and not both when it suits circumstance?

Body modification is one thing, but you have to draw the line when logic, science and law are under pressure to change to accommodate, no *appease the demands that are stemming from trans people's superficial modifications (or lack of).

Hecky Would you advocate chaging the law to allow people to legally identify as mermaids/ mermen if they had the surgery to join their legs and would so wish? And have new mermaid rights enshrined in law saying that they must have access to water at all times because the person, oops sorry mermaid, believed that their fish-tail would turn back into legs if they got dry?! And that we all have to publically say that they are mermaids not humans who have had strange surgery?

Would you advocate allowing a person to have surgery to remove or paralyse their healthy legs becasue they identity as disabled and wish to have surgery to match their inner feelings? And would you then allow them to claim disability benefits because of this surgery?

I say look and act how you wish so long as it does not hurt others, but don't expect everyone else to collude with your delusion about your biology and re-write the law simply because the current powers that be cannot properly diagnose or treat some mental illness, or accept that men and women can do almost anything, except change their sex/biology.

The way I read it, it's two people with a strong desire to reproduce, just like almost everyone else. That's led them to the extreme of accepting gender dysphoria for a time in order to have children. Is that so hard to understand? I haven't seen the program mind, just going by what's been posted here.

I do get that women are under attack from a trans-led wave of misogyny. But it lessens us all if that means every trans individual gets vilified in this way.

I imagine in the future even people born men will be able to have womb transplants and be able to have babies. This is probably just a blip in the history of our species.

I do get that women are under attack from a trans-led wave of misogyny. But it lessens us all if that means every trans individual gets vilified in this way.

I agree with NoFanJoe here.

I have a healthy degree of scepticism when it comes to the trans movement from the perspective of my feminism. But I also think these threads get nasty and personal and sometimes descend into vilifying anyone who is transsexual. It must be fucking hideous to be in such a difficult situation, mental illness or no mental illness. I don’t think being disparaging about people choosing which body parts to remove is going to help the feminist movement in its cause.

As some have suggested as long as they are good parents, ofcourse, and it's certainly not about having no compassion (as someone suggested). It's this half way transition between the sexes and trying to make society conform that I'm struggled to understand.

If you feel you were meant to be a man (or vice versa), then fully become a man as close as biologically able through science and medicine and make it legal - instead of loudly voicing how offended you are that you have been referred to as a woman when you have been admitted to a maternity ward to give birth to the baby inside of your womb and then when you feed that baby with milk you have made, refusing to acknowledge that you are breast feeding or that child's biologically mother.

If the transgender man in the documentary knew they wanted to, or were mentally able to, carry a child one day then perhaps there were further issues to be explored before transitioning. Or perhaps they should accept that they would have to live as a woman if they want to become pregnant and give birth to their kids before being able exploring who they want to become later?

I believe a lot of the trans activism is thinly veiled MRA. And poses a real threat to women.
But this looked to me like a bit of snowflakery, but no harm done.
The child will be fine as long as it's loved.

But as Janice says, regardless of the debate, it must be awful having to struggle with this mental illness.

And do you think this thread would help or harm anyone who has to stuggle with this mental illness op?

Point taken yes. And these debates can become nasty from others I've read so was hesitant to start another. Just trying to understand I guess

Blimey, it's like the last century where gay people were accused of 'mental illness'.

People make different choices and feel different things. Heterosexual people have kids, bisexual people have kids, trans and gay people have kids. Personally, I worry more about the likes of Tracy Connolly and the Worthington bloke.

If the transgender man in the documentary knew they wanted to, or were mentally able to, carry a child one day then perhaps there were further issues to be explored before transitioning. Or perhaps they should accept that they would have to live as a woman if they want to become pregnant and give birth to their kids before being able exploring who they want to become later

This. We don't know what effect the hormones they have already taken will have on the foetus, there have been no long term studies of this and there is good reason to believe that many manifestations of trans are mental illnesses or that trans individuals present with some comorbidity re mental illnesses. Chemical and surgical interventions on otherwise healthy bodies are potentially damaging, especially when other so,utions have not been explored.

We need to talk about this.

Oh for fuck's sake. Get over yourself.

I believe a lot of the trans activism is thinly veiled MRA. And poses a real threat to women.

You can feel sorry but some are trying to warp and manipulate folk into a mindfuck alternative reality. This thread shows the mindfuckery in play - this is what young kids are being fed.

mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/953083691609272320

Aside from the "trans debate" which I'm on one side of and many are on the other side of (it's fine, you do you), there are some facts missing from this discussion.

Both have been 'living as men' for a while, Dorian (the birthing parent) for 5 years and I can't remember about his partner.

Dorian recently got to the top of the waiting list for treatment at a Gender Identity Clinic.

Both men decided that they would not want to transition at the same time, due to the potential impact that would have on their relationship.

They both wanted children

Dorian was the member of the couple able to carry a child

Dorian did not wish to begin transition, then pause it to have a baby then go back to it.

They chose to have a baby, then go through with transition one at a time.

Dorian experienced significant dysphoria during pregnancy, which was managed by referring to "pregnant person/man" and "chestfeeding". They weren't campaigning for everyone to say that/use those terms, just to have their wishes respected, and stating their wish for self-ID to be acknowledged in registering of births.

This is just a case of a couple deciding to have a baby, dealing with the problems faced in pregnancy and doing the best they could.

Scary that some people are suggesting an all-or-nothing approach to transitioning, as a PP said, are they advocation en forced surgery? Their body, their choice. This transcouple wanted to have a baby together, as many couples do. It must have been a very difficult decision and a stressful time, I take my hat off to them. They are harming no one.

I find it strange that all the threads about India Willoughby reiterated over and over that she is a male and should accept this, whilst people are suggesting that this transman ignore his female biology and stick to being a man.
Which is it to be, because it can't be both?

It's fine, I'm sure the child will be very loved. But I won't collude with the notion that men can get pregnant and give birth. Only women have the equipment for that.

Why does it matter to anyone else what they do? Provided they are good parents (and there is absolutely no reason to think they wouldn't be) they are not hurting anyone. Live and let live.

bambini
I agree with you

I imagine in the future even people born men will be able to have womb transplants and be able to have babies. This is probably just a blip in the history of our species.

The ability to get pregnant isn't limited to owning a womb. The entire female body (endocrine system, skeletal structure, etc etc) works in synchronisation in order to nurture a developing baby, not to mention how difficult it is for normal organ transplants to "take" and the required medications needed to prevent the recipient's body from rejecting the organ.

Transplanting a womb into a man? Absolutely science fiction. It is astonishing that anyone could believe this would work.

I don't have an issue with transmen choosing to have babies, and I can understand pregnancy is most likely to be a very difficult time for them, given their dysphoria.

I don't agree with the media interest and the "man having a baby" headlines though, as they are factually incorrect. Women manage to give birth every day without a media circus.

When it comes to trans women keeping their penis, on the one hand bottom surgery is very invasive and not likely to create a vagina that matches up to a real vagina. I also have a feeling that many men still harbour the impression that women suffer from penis envy, and as many transwomen have AGP, I wonder if there's an element of them being the ultimate woman, being as they have boobs, makeup, long hair, all the gender trappings of female, but still retain their womanly penis.

God this is all fucking insane.

It annoyed me when I saw precious donated breast milk that should have gone to premature babies going instead to feed a baby born to a woman who had chosen to remove her breasts.

Both have been 'living as men' for a while, Dorian (the birthing parent) for 5 years and I can't remember about his partner.

I’m really curious as to what that really entails. Is it just a change of nsme and pronouns? Because other then that I can’t see what would be different from living as androgynous lesbian women.

A confused young Woman on twitter is queer/trans -because they changed their name/pronouns and dresses like a goth. Thrn she posts a pic without the black clothes and funky make up to show her “cis” look. Thank god my high school kids think it’s attention seeking bollocks.

The child should be removed from them and placed into the care of people who are not extremely mentally unwell. Can you begin to imagine the Self hating no sense this child will be raised in?

I think they and some Trans people are deluded. They ignore biology, facts and science and seem to be making stuff up as they go along.

That’s fine, do what you like, but don’t expect anyone else to go along with this. I’ll stick with science, thanks very much.