To ask how you would feel if your adult child decided to emigrate to Oz or NZ

[CaraBosse1]

Be honest and don't say you'd be "cool" about it if you wouldn't really

Ski4130 - I wonder where you're from.

I did the mad dash across the world twice to be with my Mum in HB hospital. Sadly, the third time, there was no chance of being there on time.

A lot of people work for a global company jobs can change location, if a person’s job moves what do you think they should do resign and put their families financial future at risk, or move and have security.

This has happened to us we could move back but would have no jobs, no house, would have to live on benefits. Despite still paying full higher rate tax and national insurance we would have made ourselves intentionally homeless and unemployed. That’s ok though as long as we live in a tent close to family.

Life is not always that simple, the issue of family staying in the same area feels like a very British issue. I live abroad in a country that has a reputation for stronger family ties but it’s generally accepted that people will move and travel for better prospects. There is very limited social welfare here and people just have no choice.

I moved from the UK to NZ 15 years ago and it does feel so far away. The cost of going back for visits is a real strain especially when you go during school holidays so I only manage to go every few years.

I am a bit surprised about a couple of comments saying if their child emigrated they'd feel they hadn't managed to encourage a closeness with their child.

I feel like my mum gave me the confidence, the independence, the bravery to survive and go off and find a better life.
I fear my daughter is going to be the same and I don't think it's fair to try to make her dependent and afraid to live apart. ( though I really want her to live next door to me when she grows up)

If my own kids emigrated I would survive.

I get all the practical arguments about opportunity and a better life etc.

But having been on the other side and seeing the pain it has caused I could not do that to someone I loved.

Our parents will get old, infirm, ill and die.

That for me is a huge consideration.

Skype just does not cut it.

Human contact is irreplaceable.

TheDowager - we’re from the UK but lived in Hawkes Bay for 4 years. Beautiful place but a bitch to get in to, or out of quickly.

I’m so sorry about your Mum, that must have been awful for you. That was the driving force behind us moving back to the UK, my mum’s illness. The distance proved too much of constant ‘what if?’ situation. Sending some very in-mumsnet like hugs your way, I really do feel for you and your post brought back that feeling of ‘how will I get back quickly?’

Thank you Ski - that is so lovely. The driving force behind us leaving the UK was my Dad (as a widower)'s illness.

We now face the opposite trek, but for DH, instead of me.

His parents live in a remote west coast of Ireland fishing village, and although neither of us admit it, we know that call will come one day and getting there will be that race against time.

I would do everything I could to stick the knife in and make them feel as horrendous as I’d be feeling at their decision.
Well, I’d imagine the likelihood is they’d already be NC before the point of telling you that they were emigrating if that’s the kind of guilt-tripping parent you are.

Actually, if I had parents like that I wouldn’t want my children to know them anyway so emigrating would be a win-win situation. .

It is true you have to harden your heart a little, to be a successful migrant. Certain things have to be accepted. Once you’ve been a migrant and lived for many years in another country your worldview also changes, which means that if you go back, it’s often not the same as you remembered as your perspective is different to those who have never left their village, town or county or had to set themselves up from scratch in a foreign country, get to know the ways, the people. It alters you and even going back for visits, while nice , can feel a bit “weird” like there’s been a parallel universe going on without you. It’s very strange and something I’d not anticipated when I moved. I don’t dislike visiting back at all and it’s wonderful to see friends and loved family members. But emigrating forever changes your perspective on the world. Certainly puts people moaning about driving an hour to visit you in perspective when you’ve done the Aus to Uk flight 8 tines and have a minimum 5 hour flight to even leave the country.

@juliesaway good post. I identify with what you wrote here. Often worry I wouldn't be able to fit back in , back in England .

Oddly enough I’ve been to Oz many times (first when I was 18 and worked there to pay my fare). I’ve never wanted to live there, though some family members do. There is a better outdoor lifestyle as the weather is better and work life balance is better as well.
My parents both lived in the UK - and I can tell you getting there ‘at the end’ is not guaranteed for all the geographical closeness.
My husbands dad died when we were on a weekend break abroad (no warning), my father died suddenly at home and I was in elsewhere in the UK (no warning).
I don’t think you can live your lives with ‘what ifs’. I’d be happy knowing I’d let my children travel guilt free, live where they want guilt free and visit when they could because they wanted to. I’d hate they felt restricted in any way. One has already lived overseas a year - it was immeasurable what it added to their life, social circle and sense of adventure. Happy kids happy parents.

Speaking as one of the unspeakably selfish and “beyond cruel” adult children who emigrated to NZ - I would be surprised if either of my boys wanted to move back to the UK given the state it’s in, but I would support them wholeheartedly. I would try to find out why they felt they needed to move so far away and then do what I could to help.

When we moved, I was working 90+ h weeks with a long commute, often not seeing my babies awake for days in a row. If we’d stayed, we would both be working long hours and barely seeing our children. We certainly wouldn’t be seeing much of our parents or siblings.

Here, I work a much more respectable 55h week. My commute is down to a 10 minute cycle, I can often juggle my hours to do the school run, and we can afford for DH to work part time from home. So yes, by moving with the boys we have sacrificed their closer relationships with their grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins - but in exchange for a much closer relationship with their parents. If it makes me selfish to prioritise my child’s relationship with me over that with my mother in law, then so be it.

There are other benefits - we do things here we’d never have done in the UK (multi day tramps sleeping in DOC huts), the schools where we live are all very good without paying exorbitant fees, the health care is much better than the NHS has become - but the biggest reason I stay here is because it enables me to be there for my children while they grow up in a way that would have been impossible in the UK.

My dad was upset of course but very supportive and has visited us here and seen why we love it.

Lol. I agree Oldbook. As far as I’m concerned travelling anywhere involves a whole day of getting up early/queuing/endless waiting/travel time/queuing/waiting. It makes little difference if the time in the air is three hours v 24 hours.

I’d be devastated if dd and family moved abroad. When she had a post uni gap year (extended to 15 months) I was afraid she would settle permanently in Australia. She was restless for a few years once she came back, however is now happy with dh and dc in the UK.
My ds moved to Turkey in 1993 and has lived there ever since but that is near enough for us to see them (not enough).
Having said that if dd really wanted to go I’d wish her happiness and hide my distress.
I moved to Africa with dh’s job for two years 1969 to 71 and my mum was amazing though I found out later she was heartbroken. I was pregnant with her first grandchild at the time.
She used to say,”The only way to keep your children close is to let them go.”

I guess it depends what your current relationship is with your family. If you only see them a couple of times a year the move abroad is not such a big deal. However if you see each other multiple times a week and are very close and are always popping in an out of each other’s house then it is a big deal. If there isn’t the money available to make regular trips that adds a different spectrum too or if elderly parents won’t fly then you could be saying goodbye for a much longer time. If parents become ill being a days travel away can be very difficult and knowing that you only have a short period of time to care for them before you have to travel home to your other life can also be very hard. I recently had a friend who’s father became terminally ill. The son had moved abroad some years before and had a family. It was so sad that the son came back for two weeks to say goodbye to his father. His dad waved him off of the airport both knowing they wouldn’t see each other again. 3 months later his father passed away and the son couldn’t attend his funeral.

I used to think no big deal but now I have children and elderly parents myself it’s become a bigger issue for me.

Really? You don't see the difference between a few hours away and living on the other side of the world?

In terms of being able to relieve the pressure on the care system by providing daily or even regular care - your argument - my husband isn’t able to do a great deal more for his parents than

I’m not painting a rosy picture. I’ve agreed that it’s bloody hard and there are sacrifices on all sides, particularly when you’re in a ‘mixed’ marriage like mine. But blaming the state of the care system on those who’ve moved to far away countries is silly unless you’re also holding those who live more than a few hours away culpable.

Cocofluff that's the thing.

When I and my mother were younger I would see her only every couple of weeks. My sister emigrated a long time ago.
It wasn't such a big issue- my mother ( widowed) had a good social life, continued to work part time, went on holiday with friends, volunteered in a charity shop and had a good busy life.

Fast forward a couple of decades now she is frail, needs daily support, she has no other living family members in the UK except me and my kids.
My sister sends photos of christmas beach parties from Australia, with her ( now grown) daughters, and their brood.

Kids that my mother will never meet.

I see the tears in her eyes as she grieves for her lost family.

My DH is Australian & has lived here for 16 years, we have a DD age 12.

DD's relationship with her Grandparents in Aus is nothing like the relationship with my parents that live 10 minutes away & I know she doesn't think of them in the same way.

We speak weekly via face time & visit when we can but it's not the same as being able to actually meet up.

DD has an Australian passport so I suppose her moving over there at some point is a very real possibility for the future, I try not to think about it and I would be devastated if she did.

I suppose if it was a move that she planned to make long term rather than for just a year we could move there too

I find it odd that some posters think there is no practical or emotional difference in having adult children living a couple of hundred miles away and thousands of miles away. Devon to London is four to five hours and less than a hundred quid and can be done for a weekend. Devon to Aus would obviously be at least ten times that and need weeks off work. I have one adult child living in my city and one 300 miles away and it is definitely harder to maintain a close relationship even at that distance mainly because of time and money. People who would find it easy must be very well off and with generous holiday from work.

Posters who would stop or try to stop siblings or their own children moving country by talking about selfishness and causing misery - if you were successful, how would you feel then? Over the days and years. Happy?

Would you really be able to live with yourself over the years perfectly ok with knowing that their lives have been absolutely dictated by your or another family members feelings and their plans have been binned? Is that not the definition of selfishness?

Laiste I don't think many posters have said that- in fact only one.
I wouldn't stop my siblings or children from going, I would remain cheerful .

I couldn't be so cruel to my own parent however.

So many factors to take into consideration - not just cost of flights, but whether they can comfortably put you up (and you them for return visits). It’s a long flight - not something to be undertaken lightly as parents get older - and the time difference means you need to stay for a longish time to adjust to the time difference. There’s a world of difference between seeing family for a weekend and spending three weeks with them. All very well to say you’d spend lots of time there, but that in itself can put pressure on even the best relationships. Skype is great, but the time difference makes it hard to find a convenient time and grandchildren won’t necessarily want to talk for that long - not remotely comparable to spending time with them in person. Realistically you are probably not going to see that much of each other. I’d be sad. Funnily enough it’s something I’ve been considering from the other perspective. We’ve done a few international moves within Europe and could go further afield - once my children finish school I’d be much less likely to consider it because I wouldn’t want to be on a different continent to them. A short distance is manageable (two hours on the Eurostar is closer than London to Edinburgh), but having lived all my married life with that I can see that Australia and NZ is an entirely different prospect.

To the people who state that they would move to be with their children, of course you wouldn’t. Likelihood is that you wouldn’t be able to due to visa’s and other restrictions.

added to which, if your children have the need to move to somewhere else they could just as easily then move somewhere else again... you couldn’t follow them around the world, and how many adults would welcome that anyway?

In terms of being able to relieve the pressure on the care system by providing daily or even regular care - your argument - my husband isn’t able to do a great deal more for his parents than

That wasn't my argument actually (I didn't explain it), my argument was more that when I go and visit my grandmother in her home (where she has got to be due to dementia) I am always really struck that she is one of the few residents who ever has visitors, even on christmas day.

I just don't think I could ever do that to my own mother. Not out of a sense of obligation but because I love her.

TBH unless your relationship is toxic I think it's incredibly selfish to leave your elderly parents behind. Ok when they're in good health/still young.

For me though I know my mum won't be around forever and I don't want to waste time I could have spent with her thousands of miles away.

Totally agree. Skype and FaceTime is pathetic and no replacement.