AIBU This is so heart breaking! **Thread contains article about Poppi Worthington - title edited by MNHQ**

[Meadowflowers]

How can this man be getting away with this. What a beautiful baby and her life is now over because of that monster!.
I've been in tears this morning reading it. In fact I couldn't finish reading it. What is the system coming to???

It is awful that her killer got away scott free, and to rub salt in the wounds, went to her grave with a birthday card, sick. I am angry that authorities let her down, and she did not get the justice she deserved. I still feel the same about the man, I would not care less what happened to him, and would feel no sympathy at all.

QueenAravis, whilst I agree with most of what you say, I wouldn't agree that the worst that can be attributed to the police is that "they didn't, in the middle of the crisis resus of a child, act to secure evidence which may or may not have been useful in prosecution". They were on the scene and in the house at the time, and indeed after Poppi had been taken to hospital, so it's not as if at that point they were in the middle of a crisis. I would have thought that it's standard practice when a small child dies suddenly to make sure there is a proper investigation, even if you believe that it may be a genuine cot death. The failures to secure forensic evidence really were basic in this case.

But, given that that is, as I understand it, normal practice I agree that this isn't evidence of institutional failure. However, it would be helpful to find out how far decisions in this case were influenced by financial stresses.

Oh aero I know i came across a news story about the birthday card; had to do a double take. Sending a card to his dead daughter yet cannot answer any questions about what happened; words fail me. How does he live with himself?

I would certainly shed not one tear if the father died tomorrow, and would feel that the world is well rid of him. I would however be extremely concerned if that came about as a result of the actions of vigilantes.

It was sick pass knowing full well he killed her and tourturing her further. All my sympathies are for that poor defenceless baby who died at his hands, not only died, but was tour turned by him.

Let’s hope he just accidentally kills himself in some sort of freak household accident with no harm to others. Calma is a bitch...

Exactly, karma to him.

k

and r that should read

*Bluemugajug
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Should a woman who kills her abusive husband be treated the same way someone else who murders a stranger for no reason be treated? If a schizophrenic kills someone because they are unwell be treated the same as the next murderer? Should a murdered of a child rapist be punished the same way if the child rapist evades justice?

The first two are mitigating factors (and actually the schizophrenic may be charged with something else d pending on their state at the time) - it is not a mitigating factor to say you don't like the fact an unknown to you person didn't get the justice you think they deserve.

It's frightening seeing the insides of people's minds on this.

The linked Independent article says that 3 police officers were accused of misconduct icw this investigation,. Does anyone know if those investigations have yet concluded and if so what the findings were?

noeuf, I just don’t agree that murder is murder is murder.

Take the stranger out of it. If it was a family member would you still expect the full weight of the law to come down on them?

Whenever capital punishment or vigilantism is discussed on MN it’s repeatedly said that the law is there for a reason, we have systems to deal with criminals, justice is meted out appropriately. What happens when it isn’t?

Rose, they’ve retired I believe

"Whenever capital punishment or vigilantism is discussed on MN it’s repeatedly said that the law is there for a reason, we have systems to deal with criminals, justice is meted out appropriately. What happens when it isn’t?"

We protest, call for accountability over what went wrong, demand that lessons be learned in order to make our law function better. We don't decide to abandon the law and go after people with pickaxes. In the absence of a court of law, who exactly decides it is OK to go out and attack a particular person?

And what happens if a vigilante gets it wrong? Attacks the wrong person, or a bystander gets badly hurt in the process? Would it then be OK for the family of the wrong person / bystander to go after the vigilante?

Even if vigilantes don’t get it wrong who is next on the list

Murderers, rapists, where does the list end.

It’s a horrible fact that people commit the most appalling cruel crimes in this tragic case lessons have to be learnt

That poor, poor baby. She had leg fractures, anal injuries, slight pneumonia, bleeding in her nose that is found in cases of smothering.
And no one is paying for this crime??!

How's this for a vigilante target?

A small 11 year old girl with a cardiac condition is abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered by being stabbed several times. Four teenage girls report a man for indecently exposing himself to them the day before the murder, and one says he has been stalking her subsequently and had exposed himself to her again. When interviewed, he confesses.

That's a pretty despicable crime isn't it? What should happen to the man who confessed? Surely a prime candidate for the vigilantes?

Except, of course, that we now know he absolutely didn't commit the murder and couldn't have done so, because the man in question is Stefan Kiszko whose innocence was not established till 16 years after the murder. If we'd let him loose amongst the vigilantes in 1976 they would no doubt have been absolutely convinced they were ridding the world of a monster. What happened to him is bad enough, but it could have been truly horrendous if we believed in allowing vigilante justice.

I think the big issue in this case is the father's refusal to comment.

Rose Two were found to have a case to answer for gross misconduct.

One retired, another was demoted and then retired. Neither of those two faced any charges.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-42189687

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-34920002

*Blumugajug
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'Take the stranger out of it. If it was a family member would you still expect the full weight of the law to come down on them'
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Did you actually read and understand where I said 'mitigating factors'? I don't really see you doing anything other than scraping around trying to justify Joe Bloggs reading about some 'peedo' and firing himself up to dish out rough justice.*

Because she was deemed incapable of parenting four children prior to having Poppi and her twin. It is not she is “at fault” in the same way the father is but it is screamingly bloody obvious she was not capable of keeping those babies safe

she had ONE baby who she had been deemed incapable of parenting

A 4 month old born when she was a teen all her other children were resident with her with if I recall correctly no issues or concerns raised and she was considered to be an adequate mother.

I don’t understand why they are saying she probably died whilst sleeping next to him, not being able to breathe. Surely it’s far more likely she died whilst being smothered by him in attempt to quieten her cries. It far too much of a coincidence that a child would die/stop breathing within minutes of being raped and it not being connected.

Needsasockamnesty the family had a lot of SS involvement for a number of years, pretty constantly.

@DonnyAndVladSittingInATree

Maybe the experts understand more about this than us? Off the top of my head actively being smothered to prevent crying out might tend to lead to more physical signs than accidental smothering.

It far too much of a coincidence that a child would die/stop breathing within minutes of being raped and it not being connected.

I think the sequence of events that the coroner puts forward makes some sort of sick sense. The father did what he wanted, finished then threw a blanket over her so he didn't have to look at her.