AIBU This is so heart breaking! **Thread contains article about Poppi Worthington - title edited by MNHQ**

[Meadowflowers]

How can this man be getting away with this. What a beautiful baby and her life is now over because of that monster!.
I've been in tears this morning reading it. In fact I couldn't finish reading it. What is the system coming to???

My mother (and father for that matter) don’t know that I was sexually abused as a child. Perfectly normal family and upbringing. I just hid it.

Classy, unless you have some sort of proof that her mother knew/suspected then you need to STFU. The woman lost her daughter in horrific circumstances, her husband is a rapist child abuser, and I doubt she's had five minutes peace from the attentions of the gutter press since it happened. Backseat parenting and Monday morning quarterbacking are neither helpful or kind. Many children are hurt by people around them and one of the facets of abuse is the secrecy that surrounds it, it would be very easy for the mother to have known nothing.

Even if she didnt actually die from that henious act. I can't even type the word.
Doing something so dispicable should in itself carry a whole life tariff no chance of parole. You can't cute and beast of this kind

My mother didn't know that my father was mentally and emotionally abusing me and my DB until 20 years later. We thought she was implicit in it because he would tell us she was the one who had told him to "sort us out". It always happened when she was out of the house and we never told her about it because we thought she already knew. She was devasted to learn the truth.

Abusers are sneaky little bastards who are very adept at covering their tracks.

Why post this? I honestly have no idea why people feel the need to share stories about absolutely vile events.

clawdy not classy, stupid autocorrect

It is heartbreaking, poor little girl. It is the sort of case that makes you weep for her.

Pity there isn't enough evidence to prosecute him, expect there would be no shortage of funding on a crowdfunding site.

In a lot of cases like these I find the U.K. legal system panders to the human rights of the perpetrators and not such much the victims.

This is disgraceful. I think people like this should be executed and removed entirely from human existence... they will never be rehabilitated. NEVER!

My dad raped me and told me "I'd have nowhere to live" if I told anyone.

The thought of being homeless and taken from your mother, brothers etc when your five years old is unbearable. No wonder I did all I could to pretend to my mother that nothing was "abnormal".

It was not my mother's fault she married and became dependent on a child sex abuser.

It was not my brothers fault they knew nothing.

It was my father's fault. He did it. Not my mother.
Get a grip women haters.

This is just aeful, that poor baby.

"They were not a normal family" is so ignorant. He is not a normal man or father is fact.

From what I have read the suggestion is out there that PW was the ex-partner of a woman who sexually exploited Poppi's mother. If that is true, and right now I'd believe almost anything about PW, that appears to suggest that there was something very fishy going on indeed in addition to the appalling series of events that appear to have led to Poppi's death. I doubt that any blame can be pointed at the mother, nor should it be unless it's from the legal system.

If there's enough evidence for the coroner to say he sexually abused her, why isn't that enough evidence to charge him?

Someone mentioned there's a lesser burden of proof at an inquest but I'm still a bit confused.

If there's enough evidence for the coroner to say he sexually abused her, why isn't that enough evidence to charge him?

Different courts operate under different burdens of proof. Criminal charges must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Family and coroner's courts operate under a standard of "the preponderance of the evidence" (or similar - IANAL and this may be the wrong vocab), which is a quite different standard. They are trying to determine what probably happened, whereas a criminal court must establish definitively not only what happened but who did it.

It has little to do with Paul Worthington's human rights; every well-established legal system requires criminal charges to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to prevent the persecution of innocent people. It was not able to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Poppi was sexually assaulted or that that assault caused her death. Medical evidence was conflicting and potential evidence was not collected and retained by police.

PS. It is (needless to say) a distressing read, but a full timeline of the events and of the evidence earlier presented in family court can be found here and here

*Today 16:05 Bossbaby12

Why post this? I honestly have no idea why people feel the need to share stories about absolutely vile events.*

Oh right so we should all pretend vile events don't happen then bossbaby? Maybe we shouldn't talk about the horrific events surrounding the Rochdale case then?
Or Fred west? Or child P? Or the girls Ian Huntley took? Or the many many many children that slip through the gaps.

Maybe we should just not talk about it and let them all suffer in silence shall we. Ok then.

No there's nothing that's going to change for poppi now, but being more aware of the events and signs that were missed in this. Case mean that there's a chance more people will be aware.

Also your an adult no one is making you read it.

It's horrific and I can't read it.

Yes because a man can't commit a crime without a mother knowing it. She must have not got the free crystal ball at conception. My word!

In a lot of cases like these I find the U.K. legal system panders to the human rights of the perpetrators and not such much the victims.

This is nothing to do with human rights. It's to do with the basic law of evidence that was in place decades before we signed up to the Human Rights Convention in the 1950s. It's simply the case that we do not convict people of criminal offences unless their guilt is proved beyond reasonable doubt. In a case like this where the idiot police didn't get any forensic evidence it just isn't possible to reach that standard. We can't relax that standard of proof, because the consequences for innocent people of being wrongly convicted are simply not acceptable or accepted in our society.

stormtreader What a stupid comment

bossbaby12 Likewise

Despicable. I am from nearby and ashamed of how bloody inept the local Police were. It makes my blood boil. I understand rural Police don't deal with cases like this often, so there needs to be procedures in place when something like this happens.

If the local police can't follow procedure because of lack of up-to -date training or incompetence there job should be to secure a potential crime scene and evidence until somebody specialised can be brought in. How can they have failed this little girl so badly? He was never even interviewed until far Lo much time had passed.

He has got away with it, sickening.

don’t understand this. Why has he not been charged with anything? Was there any reason given

From what I recall it was lack of evidence. The nappy was thrown away by family member and there was a huge delay inbetween the incident and any interviews happening. If I remember rights the other children were also left with the family with him still in it for a lengthy period before children’s social care took action but I could be misremembering that bit

too

Someone mentioned there's a lesser burden of proof at an inquest but I'm still a bit confused

It’s the difference between beyond reasonable doubt and so likely I’m almost certain but cannot say with 100% certainty that’s why

Hi all - we've just edited the title to reflect what the thread's about. OP, please do get in touch if you've any problems at all.

Thanks

I’m in tears. I’ve been in tears before about Poppi and the circumstances surrounding her death. The bastard should hang for what he has done.

I’m incandescant about the fact the us the tax payer are paying for witness protection for the cunt. Let the wolves have him!

Sorry for my language but I absolutely hate that no one was able to protect Poppi or that anyone has been brought to justice.

Cumbrian police ought to hang their heads in shame too!!!