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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed that no compassionate leave?

231 replies

crunchymint · 15/01/2018 07:40

I am going to a funeral of a close friend and have to take annual leave.

OP posts:
WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 15/01/2018 23:57

YABVU, OP. Your attitude on this thread is shockingly awful.

It’s a standard policy. Your employers are not “treating you like shit” in terms of this policy. If you move jobs, it will be exactly the same wherever you go.

crunchymint · 15/01/2018 23:59

Thank you for your kindness whattodo

OP posts:
WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 16/01/2018 00:12

You’re grieving, so you’re not seeing things as clearly as you usually would. We are able to take emotion out of the situation and see it for what it is: a standard policy.

Ellisandra · 16/01/2018 00:16

I'm sorry for your loss.

It sounds as though you have some unresolved issues about your poor family relationships - which is hardly surprising, difficulty with family rather lends itself to unresolved issues!

It really stood out to me that you think you are discriminated against.

I don't see my parents, some friends are far more important - but I don't feel "discriminated" against. You're turning a very standard policy into a personal issue. It really isn't.

There has to be a line officially, though I prefer discretion. I don't think your "4 person" idea works. I used to deal with pension nomination forms - pretty important! It was really common for people to forget to update these - for example on divorce. I guarantee you, that apart from the additional costly admin of keeping, advertising, updating the list, there'd be frequent issues of Friend E dying and Employee saying "but E became so important to me this year, more than A, B, C, D and I never thought to update the form!". It wouldn't work.

Accept that this is a totally standard policy, and not a bad one - you have enough stress right now without creating more that isn't actually personally didcriminating against you.

PancakeInMaBelly · 16/01/2018 00:19

Spending Christmases together is exactly the kind of evidence I'm talking about! It is absolutely understandable if you don't want to go into that kind of detail to your boss, but if you don't you can't them blame them for not appreciating this as a significant loss!

I do not believe that people whose lives have never intertwined are going to be "family close" because that, IMO, is the difference between " just" a friend and a close/best friend.

Friend live parallel to each other: if one dies you are sad that they are gone. It doesn't however pull the rug from under your life

Close/best friends lives intertwine, so when they die you DO need compassionate leave because the kids is two pronged: you are sad that they are gone AND the loss rips a hole in the fabric of your life, because they were PART of it, not just bobbing along beside you for a bit...

Pre marriage certs and babies I still could have "evidenced" my closest friends: we flat shared or even moved in with the others parents for a bit in one case, they are your go-to for sofa surfing after a break up, you co-run extra curricular activities together, run 3 marathons together (not me!), one went to the same primary secondary AND uni (same course) as me, 2of my closest friends went into a business venture together for a bit....

The people you TELL this stuff to over a coffee or drink are IMO "just friends". The people you DO these things with and live life WITH are the ones worthy of a somewhat higher status than "just" friend.

TurtleBeach · 16/01/2018 09:21

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on the OP who is going through a significant loss and possibly not thinking rationally. There also seems to be a couple of issues at play here. First of all, it does seem correct and usual practice, if also slightly harsh, for companies to impose boundaries for compassionate leave and close family makes sense. What needs to go hand in hand with that however, is an understanding that leave can be taken at short notice and without quibble when an employee needs or wants to attend a funeral for someone who does not fall into that compassionate leave category. Denying a leave request under these circumstances is truly heartless and does not make for good staff morale.

I'm currently being frustrated by a similar(ish) situation. My lovely uncle died and the funeral is this week. Work is really busy at the moment so although it is really important to me to pay my respects, I had planned to go to the service only, forgo the wake and work the rest of the day. The funeral is relatively local and at 1pm so I can be there and back in just over two hours, one of which should be my lunch hour (ha!) anyway. I spoke to my boss to explain the situation and suggested that, when I come back to work, I stay on for an additional hour/90 minutes to make up the time or I would be happy to take it unpaid but no, I am being forced into annual leave. I can't even just take a half day annual leave, because of the timing of the funeral and the fact that it doesn’t map correctly on the two halves of the day, I am being forced to take a full day's leave. On the one hand, great - I can grieve properly and attend the wake but on the other, I am just storing up loads of work which then needs to be competed in 4 days, including having to reschedule meetings, which I otherwise could have attended in the morning and late afternoon, and cause inconvenience to others. To make matters worse, I regularly work unpaid overtime because of the workload and amassed an additional 9 hours last week anyway. The way I see it, the time is already in the bank and additional time will be worked anyway, so I'm just adding to this by taking a day off when I had tried to do the right thing by me, my uncle, my extended family and my team by reducing the time off.

Ironically, the reason I am trying to conserve my annual leave is that my dad is ill and lives abroad and I am aware that we could lose him over the next year. I will get compassionate leave for this but it won’t be enough to sort out the funeral, get my mum settled (she has health issues too and my dad is her carer), plus all the legal issues surrounding an ex-pat death in the country in which they live (I have heard horror stories from other adult offspring in my situation). I know I'll have to take considerable annual leave to add to the CL when the time comes, otherwise I'd have to take it unpaid and will really struggle to keep afloat so am trying to not to eat into AL too much at this point. I was therefore trying to do the right thing by my uncle without having to trade off his definite funeral for my dad's possible death.

The other thing I have noticed is that people seem to subconsciously categorise non-CL as a situation not requiring compassion (and, by extension, AL = holiday = fun!) so I wonder if the OP is suffering from colleagues/bosses, just shrugging off her loss and therefore minimising her grief. I do think that there is a middle ground and employers/bosses need to be mindful of the fact that people may well be upset by a death even if it not their parent/spouse/child. I small word of kindness and acknowledgement; "I'm sorry to hear that", "hope all goes as well as it can at the funeral etc" goes a long way.

crunchymint · 16/01/2018 09:27

Yes colleagues have said nothing. I am sorry about your Uncle.

OP posts:
riledandharrassed · 16/01/2018 17:23

I work in HR and we would have given you it . We are fairly flexible .

thatmakesmehappy · 16/01/2018 17:39

The rule for us to get compassionate leave is that we have to be able to show a copy of the death certificate following the event, but within a month, or else it has to be annual leave or unpaid! I’m assuming they got so sick of people lying about going to funerals.

Lizzie48 · 16/01/2018 17:48

I think in your case, OP, as you were involved with looking after your friend, your request should have been given some consideration, not just a flat no because she wasn't immediate family. She was clearly very close to you, it sounds like you were a wonderful friend to her.

I also suspect that you wouldn't have been as angry about this if you'd been treated with compassion.

lindaf100 · 16/01/2018 17:51

Sorry for your loss, but I had such a dreadful line manager, a real bully, that when my husband died I was told 'she would think about it' (compassionate leave). I ignored her and just didn't go in work for 3 weeks. I thought it was an absolutely disgusting attitude

Leaspr · 16/01/2018 17:52

I’d be sympathetic and of course allow you to have the day off but as far as compassionate leave? I’d only allow my staff to take that for immediate family. This is standard practice in most workplaces I believe.

deptfordgirl · 16/01/2018 17:55

Be thankful you're not a teacher. I wasn't allowed a day off unpaid to attend the funeral of a friend as was told I only could for close family. Not sure if that's standard or the discretion of the head.

clarkl2 · 16/01/2018 17:57

Not immediate family therefore you are not entitled to compassionate leave. Read the sickness policy

crunchymint · 16/01/2018 18:05

lindaf That is awful,and I would have done the same in your circumstances. Of course if someone is grief stricken, they can always go off sick.

OP posts:
crunchymint · 16/01/2018 18:07

Lizzie Yes I think it is that. No one has even said, sorry for your loss or anything. I just feel like nobody gives a shit how I am feeling to even do the minimum of platitudes.

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 16/01/2018 18:22

It also depends a lot on the job you do, and the size of company you work for. Some employers will find it a lot harder to give people leave at short notice than others, even if they are sympathetic. The job still has to be done and there are some lines of work where someone suddenly having to be out of the workplace for the day has a major negative impact on clients or colleagues, so the employer has to try to minimize the chances of this happening.

pollymere · 16/01/2018 18:44

My work just gave me the day off as paid leave but it's their policy for funerals. If your work's policy states it's only for close relations then you have to take Annual leave.

FuzzyCustard · 16/01/2018 18:50

I got 5 days CL for the death of my father (so had to go back to work between his death and his funeral) and also 5 days for my stillborn granddaughter, but that was discretionary. Thank goodness for a decent boss on that occasion.

hjublen · 16/01/2018 18:51

I don't have much sympathy I'm afraid, like many people I'm self employed so got no compassionate leave for either of my parents funerals. I took the time of course but had to make it up later or lose money (as I do if I'm ill or on holiday).

crunchymint · 16/01/2018 18:53

My DP is self employed. You can't compare it to being employed

OP posts:
Leh64 · 16/01/2018 19:02

Unfortunate, but yea, it's the same at my work place. We only get compassionate leave for mother, father, brother or sister.

manicmij · 16/01/2018 19:14

Surely surely with being such a good friend to you taking a day annual leave for the funeral is nothing. Like other postings
understand compassionate leave reserved for family members' funeral.

Gingernaut · 16/01/2018 19:19

Even the loss of a parent only warrants one working week.

That's for hospital, funeral directors, registry office, burial arrangements, funeral, probate and all other duties.

When my uncle died, I needed to take annual leave to sort out burial and funeral arrangements.

I used up my half day allotted.

purplebunny2012 · 16/01/2018 19:23

I was quite affected by the death of my BIL, but I was only allowed enough compassionate leave to go up the day before (not local) and the day of the funeral. You'd think they let you take a few days when it's family.
I did get most of the day off work on the day he died as it was extremely sudden and I kept bursting into tears.

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