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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed that no compassionate leave?

231 replies

crunchymint · 15/01/2018 07:40

I am going to a funeral of a close friend and have to take annual leave.

OP posts:
grannytomine · 15/01/2018 18:06

So basically your friend means so much to you that your employer has to give you a day off for their funeral but you begrudge giving up a day of your holiday leave.

Namechangedforzombiethread · 15/01/2018 20:29

The difficulty with discretion as a manager is that people talk - so even if they aren't taking the piss, if Fred finds out that you gave Jim a day's compassionate leave for his lifelong friend, he will wonder why he doesn't get the day's leave when his friend dies even if it doesn't sound like they were close (who fairly judge?)

Having policies makes it clearer and fairer for all... although I think I still would use my discretion in some circumstances

Hippydippydoo · 15/01/2018 20:34

It all boils down to this...an employer can't be expected to know the value of each relationship in your life, therefore there is the over all assumption that will fit the majority which is that direct family is more important than more distant relations and friends.

In order to treat everyone fairly, compassionate leave is reserved for direct family only. Otherwise what's to stop an employee taking compassionate leave for pretty much anyone by just saying " we are really close"...it's simply their only way to manage expectations and treat everyone fairly.

It isn't done to be mean or insensitive.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/01/2018 20:44

Compassionate leave will never hit your bottom line the way pissing off your employees and making them feel under-valued will

It will if the idea about entitlement to compassionate leave spreads too far

It sounds as if OP's been caught up in standard rules designed to put off p**s takers, which is a shame when the non-relative's been genuinely close - but any employer who's heard about funerals of an apparently infinite supply of grandmothers will confirm that the whole subject's not an easy one

FrancisCrawford · 15/01/2018 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LemonShark · 15/01/2018 20:54

"I also don't know anyone who has more friends than family members"

Really? That fascinates and surprises me! I guess it depends what you class as family. I technically have an almost infinite number of relatives, but people I speak to, care about and love? I have two. I'd imagine all but the most introvert loners have more friends than family.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 20:56

I got compassionate leave for a friends funeral but I brought in evidence that this was more than just a mate! i.e. we were each others children's God parents and I had been her bridesmaid.

If it's a friend that's close as/closer than family you would have some evidence usually. Maybe shared tennancies from being flatmates in the past. Years of holidays booked together. Named in each other's wills. Maybe power of attorney or medical first contact. Some sort of evidenced history.

I think in the absence of any of that it's reasonable for employers to treat it as "just" a friend Vs your "chosen family" type of friend.

Viviennemary · 15/01/2018 21:02

I can't think of any company who would do this officially. Perhaps a sympathetic boss might let you off for the morning/afternoon if you regularly worked over your hours or made the time up. But not compassionate leave except for close family.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 21:02

"You are wrong. Often friends DO have to make arrangements for funerals".I

If you are named as a friend's executer you will have some paper evidence of this.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 21:02

"You are wrong. Often friends DO have to make arrangements for funerals".I

If you are named as a friend's executer you will have some paper evidence of this.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 21:07

You are wrong. Often friends DO have to make arrangements for funerals.
If you are the executer of a friends will (usually the person who arranges the funeral) you will have paper evidence.
And you would be asking for time off as the executer, not just to attend a friends funeral

OP I think you are BU and expecting some sort of "credit" from the universe for the fact that you have less close family than friends.

Truth is if someone's REALLY close friend died they don't say when asking for time off that it's a friends funerak, they'll at least say "my BEST friend" or closEST friend. Or oldEST friend , or "my best man died" or maid of honour, or birth partner, or godchild's mother/father etc...

See I DO agree that friends can be closer than family, but I'm not really reading that from your posts so why would your employer

AlexanderHamilton · 15/01/2018 21:10

I'm very sorry for your loss. But compassionate leave is ususlly for partners, parents, children & siblings only. Some companies also include grandparents. Other family members & friend's annual leave is usual.

AuditAngel · 15/01/2018 21:11

On one particular day I had the funeral of my Godmother and in the afternoon, of the 18 year old who lived next door to me when I was a child, who I used to babysit.

Our policy is also immediate family only as compassionate leave, but on that day my boss said I could have the day as compassionate leave!

AlpacaPicnic · 15/01/2018 21:21

I'm local government and we only get 50% compassionate leave. By which I mean we have to match everything we take as CL with an equivalent amount of AL up to give says. (So for example if you need 2 days off for travelling to a funeral you get one day CL and one day AL.)

But CL is restricted to immediate family only.
One pisstaker at work took 2+2 days upon a death, then another 2+2 for the actual funeral (so far all fair) , then tried to take her 'final' allowed day three months later for 'dealing with the will' and threw such a strop when she was told that that wasn't covered by CL and she would have to take it all as AL. The relationship connection wasn't even strong enough to officially warrant CL under our employment terms (her partners parents partner which she claimed was a step parent but wasn't technically!) and she was advised to drop the tantrum as if she pushed too far they'd make her pay back the CL that she basically lied to be given in the first place.

user1491678180 · 15/01/2018 22:25

@crunchymint

Yes. If my brother dies after my parents have died, I will take the day off as compassionate leave and instead have a nice day at home. No intention of going to his funeral, unless it is to support my parents.

Oh wow! I have heard it all now. What a horrible attitude. If I was your boss and I found out you did this, I would dock you a day's pay.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/01/2018 22:31

OP I think you are BU and expecting some sort of "credit" from the universe for the fact that you have less close family than friends

And? Why should family be valued more than friends? That's just a convention and prejudice. If leave is offered it should be for whatever context the employee deems is appropriate, with evidence if required.

FrancisCrawford · 15/01/2018 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/01/2018 22:45

The employer grants the leave, but employees should have grounds to make a reasonable case for whatever circumstances they wish to use it for. Family should not be privileged over other close relationships.

coconuttella · 15/01/2018 22:56

It’s seems very odd to me to go to your boss with evidence of the closeness of your friendship with the deceased to demonstrate that your closeness of relationship warrants that being entitled to an extra day’s leave. You’re effectively saying “Look at these photos and documents that show how close I was to this person... Surely you now feel sorry enough for me that you’ll give me an extra day’s leave.”

nooka · 15/01/2018 22:58

Very close family is standard though, and many of these policies are negotiated between employers and trade unions and then other non unionised employers pick them up so that they are offering similar benefits. Bearing in mind that all non statutory leave is a benefit. Employers want their policies to be easy to understand and apply, and close family is easy to prove if there is a dispute. Friends not so much. Most employers give managers some discretion but this may vary depending on events. For example I worked for an organisation that had flexible working as a non official benefit, up to one Friday afternoon when the entirety of the communications team were off and the CEO needed urgent advice. After that no flexible working at all.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 23:21

It’s seems very odd to me to go to your boss with evidence of the closeness of your friendship with the deceased to demonstrate that your closeness of relationship warrants that being entitled to an extra day’s leave. You’re effectively saying “Look at these photos and documents that show how close I was to this person... Surely you now feel sorry enough for me that you’ll give me an extra day’s leave.

Well nobody is asking you to
But if you CHOSE to argue that this is the death of someone you have a close but non blood relationship with, more than just a regular friend. Then it makes sense to describe it as such!

If you "just" ask for leave for a friends funeral. You'll just get annual or unpaid leave
It's your choice. Nobody will make you describe or give details of the rekationship, but if you leave it at that you cannot seriously expect your employer to assume I'd psychically know that you are closer to this friend than your own blood!

What I am saying is that if you are really as close to a friend as the OP is arguing some people are to friends, then you will either have some other more accurate way to describe them (best man, birth partner etc), or, you will have some evidence to hand to show it as more than "just" a mate.

I found it easier to just snap a photo of some certs and attach it to an email than to argue my case when devastated. And it worked, I got the CL.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 23:31

You’re effectively saying “Look at these photos and documents that show how close I was to this person... Surely you now feel sorry enough for me that you’ll give me an extra day’s leave.

Well. Yeah! It is "compassionate" leave you're asking for, so um. ..yeah! Don't wanna show that you're that affected? You don't have to. Just ask for SO or unpaid and no questions will be asked.

However if it WAS your child's godmother etc.then that demonstrated a close relationship quite well

And I don't buy that you are REALLY that close if you don't have SOME sort of evidence of the closeness other than "close friend"

All of my close friends have a web of other ways to describe each other: I've been birth partnet, bridesmaid/woman of honour, godmum, named suggested guardian on wills...

The friends who I don't have other descriptions for, I would be very sad if the died. But not too my world apart need compassionate leave sad.

PancakeInMaBelly · 15/01/2018 23:38

And? Why should family be valued more than friends? That's just a convention and prejudice I said nothing of the sort. I said the opposite in general . But the OPs posts don't really describe that kinda closeness about this funeral so if these are the words op used to ask for leave, then no wonder the employer didn't think it sounded as close/closer than family

If leave is offered it should be for whatever context the employee deems is appropriate, with evidence if required.
Well yeah. That's what I said. But it takes a little more than just saying "close friend"

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/01/2018 23:43

I'm not sure I'd have any evidence re my closest friend. All but one of the examples you cite presume some sort of familial or conventional / socially accepted tokens in some way. I can't provide evidence of the kinds of supportive chats, caring and suchlike that colour my closest friendships. But they are still important and certainly more important than at least one close blood relative. We are too caught up in conventional ideas of what and who matters to people.

Original poster
crunchymint · 15/01/2018 23:57

I have no evidence. My close friend was not married, had no kids and was not interested in kids. I am not married. But I physically cared for my friend when she was ill, and we saw each other at least once a week for years. Sure I have photos of holidays together or Christmases spent together.
Thank you for those who have been kind. Funeral is later this week, so going to forget about my employer now.

OP posts: