Table Manners

[ciele]

AIBU to think such things are important?
I was brought up to consider such stuff as no elbows on the table, not eating with your mouth open, putting knife and fork together when you have finished as non negotiable.
My OH thinks these things are just the way my family was (read that as you will but I take it to mean shallow and overly concerned with the niceties).

YADNBU

Re elbows on the table. If elbows are on the table, people cannot properly control their cutlery and/or are shovelling food. If it's resting arms on the table while eating, elbows are often out like chickens and poking into your neighbour. I think it's OK to have elbows on the table after plates have been cleared and sitting chatting with wine or coffee, but not with eating.

Rowenas, a lot of posters here aren't saying manners don't matter but are seeing the difference between manners like not eating with your mouth open, which is about consideration for others, and affectations like tearing not slicing your bread, which makes no earthly difference to anyone and must surely exist purely so that the U can spot the non-U.

Agree 100% with o p

Manners aren't a bad thing at all! How could they be?

Because there's very little consensus on what good manners are! Without even going into cultural differences, which changes everything all over again- this thread demonstrates quite clearly that a behaviour one person sees as good manners and quite essential may be seen by another as unimportant faff.

Not read the full thread, so someone may have said something similar, but...I think that manners are really important but as we are now a more multicultural society there a multitude of ideas about acceptable table manners - for example in my husbands culture to eat with left hand is totally unacceptable - so our children don't eat with a knife and fork in a traditional way. Also as a society, we eat a wider variety of foods, many of which make more sense to be eaten with fingers, with bread, or a spoon.
So like others have said I think there are a central set of manners to do with eating in a way which doesn't disturb others or cause disgust, making lots of mess or eating with your mouth open, but perhaps the more traditional manners are no longer relevant to all situations.

Really nicely put Rhiannon. Manners vs affections sums it all up and to use another poster's suggestion, the affections definitely seem quite Hyacinth Bucket.

There definitely seems some kind of snobbery where those who waitress see in-depth knowledge as important whereas those who seem to be more likely to need such etiquette don't care too much.

Standard table manners are a must - can't believe anyone would think otherwise:

eat with the mouth closed as quietly as possible
No slurping from drinks
No dragging bread rolls around the plate
elbows off the table
back straight, no bent over, shovelling (my personal pet hate)
if you are getting a drink or anything else ask everyone at the table
offer any bowls of food to guests first
avoid eating the last of anything if you are elsewhere for dinner
wait until everyone is seated before starting
thank you before we begin
ask to leave the table and with fork and knife neatly together on plate
A thank you to the cook/host/daddy/mummy before loading plate and cutlery (pref offering to clear up)

dc could do this at a young age and good manners cost nothing at all.

As an aside U and non U makes me cringe.

fork to the face not face to the fork, is the rule with us. I hate 'shovellers'... and the USA custom of only using a fork is becoming endemic here in the UK it seems to me. Tut tut.

No dragging bread rolls around the plate

What does this mean? (genuine question, not being !)

Notreally, I was using U and non-U tongue-in-cheek (as did Nancy Mitford).

@RhiannonOHara sorry I didn’t mean you, just the general existence of the terms. I completely agree with everything you said!

No, I wasn't offended, Notreally, I just felt the need to make my intention clear

It’s something my snooty (but not U ) auntie says all the time. She’s Hyacinth Bucket in Jimmy Krankie’s body

Yes, matters. If you have good manners, no one notices. If you don't, everyone does, and most people deserve to be noticed for more than that.

Like all courtesies, it's about kindness to yourself as well as others.

Balderdash to say that there are barely any table manners universal through cultures - loads exist, practically a common code. Differences mainly come from climate, religion, the usual modifiers. Loads of universal no-nos, too.

She’s Hyacinth Bucket in Jimmy Krankie’s body

Lana, if you're referring to fabulous's post, she actually says there are 'a multitude of ideas about acceptable table manners' rather than 'barely any table manners universal through cultures'.

YANBU. I was brought up like that. My ILs like to think they are our social superiors but they totally show themselves up with their table manners. Manners are about making people feel comfortable and I certainly don't like people talking with food in their mouth as I don't bloody want to see what they're chewing!

I love table manners, we don't enforce elbows off the table at home but they know it should be followed when out. Knife and fork together, yes. Closed mouth to eat, absolutely yes! Asking before leaving the table, yes. Along with no reading at the table, which would include phones too.

It's the way I was brought up.

I must say it's similar at school, too.

Good table manners are important, but as pp have mentioned, there are different versions of what are good manners are dependent on some cultural influences. Dh is Spanish/Maltese with a huge extended family here in the UK. Mealtimes in his family are noisy affairs that would have appalled my straight laced, very middle class English grandparents who taught us no elbows on the table, don't talk with your mouthful, how to hold your cutlery, take your food to your mouth, not your mouth to the food and never lean across someone to reach for food. I've taught our dc the same rules, bar the elbows as that doesn't bother me at all.

Mealtimes for us are totally different to my childhood though, they're an occasion, even if it's just the 5 of us, because that's how dh and his family eat. If we're out to eat with the extended Spanish family it's noisy, chaotic and everyone talks at once and leans over each other to pass food around but I love it. It's way more relaxed and enjoyable than childhood meals at my grandparents.

I've taught my dc table manners because I don't want them to show themselves up when they eat at school, or friend's houses, at work or wherever, but I'm also pretty relaxed about talking, elbows on the table etc because we sit round the table to catch up with each other, as well as eat, so I want everyone to be comfortable.

YANBU OP teach them good table manners and they will feel comfortable eating any where. Like all things , once you know the rules you can also gauge when it's ok break them.
If they have never been taught they will just look uneducated.
My dcs know how to eat in formal company. It's not required at home or with friends but they can turn it on when they need to !

All basic stuff tbh, I don't consider any of that anything more than normal good manners

I'm with the 'manners maketh man; brigade. From early on..

No elbows, open mouths, knifes and forks closed at end. And a really odd one that my friends comment on is pick up knife and fork , not forking it into mouth like a shovel.

My hubby thinks it odd that sometimes if children in bed and we have a takeaway.... he eats with said fork or worse a spoon! I sit on sofa not dining table (in same room) but use my knife and fork!

I think table manners are very important.

I can remember being taught to use my cutlery correctly at school-aged about 8. I was mortified that I had been doing it wrong and that I hadn't been shown at home. Other family members aren't exactly pigs in troughs but they don't all adhere to as many rules and etiquette that I found out about as time passed.

DS was brought up to have good dining etiquette. I am pleased that he cares enough about it that he'll be able to conduct himself in any dining environment.

Shovelling , fork only, elbows out, slurping, burping and general guzzling are unfair on others at the table.

This thread has given me a little, ahem, food for thought.

I know how to eat to fit in at pretty much all levels of formality i’ likely to encounter (though draw the line at royal functions). However, at home I’m a very slobbish eater. Licking the plate, licking my knife...oh, yes.

Which was fine when it was just DP and me. But we now have DD. At 26mo, ‘manners’ rarely gets much further than “Don’t put your dinner in your water “ (she is such a fantastically fussy little bugger that I’d be prepared to put up with quite a lot if only she ‘d bloody eat something). I’m aware that before long, we will be entering the interminable period where she ‘s old enough to register and copy how we eat, but not old enough to understand context. So it looks like I will have to rein myself in (and save the plate-licking for when she ‘s out of the room- along with the chocolate-eating ).