To wonder why this song is still ok to play on the radio

[CoedynSbageti]

Jealous Guy

Written and performed by a man who admitted he was violent towards women.

Just that really.

There seems to be a whole trend of being scared to say anything these days for fear of offence, and of people taking offence at the slightest thing. I don't agree with my mother's attitude (oh it was different back then - basically saying that people groping you was OK!!!) but there is a world of difference between the genuine creepy guy who won't take no for an answer, and the clumsy attempt of someone to chat you up and perhaps put their arm round you but backs off when you say you aren't interested.
Jealous guy? I honestly read that song as about emotional hurt and don't see it as a song about violence. I wasn't aware that Lennon had any convictions for violence - so I don't see an issue with the song. IF he did, my viewpoint might be different. Gary Glitter was convicted - so that does change my view of his songs (I cringe when DD3 innocently sings, "Do You Wanna Be In My Gang", she has heard it from the Spice Girls movie). Michael Jackson was never proven as far as I know so I don't have the same view of his work.

Housemum Lennon admitted to using violence on women. His first wife said he hit her. The proof came from his own mouth.

Christ, get a life! Should we ban Ban Woody Allen films, anything produced by Weinstein or William Burrows' books because he took drugs and killed his wife? There are a long list of writers and artists who have committed crimes or expressed horrible sentiments but it should not detract from the artistic merit.

Lost prophet lead singer, wasent he involved with women who pimped there baby's out, they were the real scum.

I understand where OP is coming from. It's not about censorship, but rather a matter of good/poor taste. I love my local radio station, but every time they play Blurred Lines, I turn over and feel slightly disappointed in them that little bit more - a personal feeling of "Oh, come on, I thought you were better than that". The lines are not blurred, and I don't want my daughter thinking there's such a thing. Consent is consent - be clear and be heard.

Lost Prophets were never "banned" (there's no such thing now), but every media outlet knows that if they played their songs they would lose followers in their droves. It's a business judgement they make based on a moral perception. The rest of us probably don't listen to their music any longer in private as it reminds us of something so heinous. Michael Jackson is still played because he was never convicted, therefore he still has masses of fans who are quite happy to continue loving his work. Radio stations and TV companies are not arbiters of moral decency - they're corporations providing entertainment to the masses, and make judgements based on popularity. Netflix didn't pull House of Cards because they were disgusted by Kevin Spacey - their subscription take-up dropped massively because of how we feel about Kevin Spacey, so they decided to cut their losses (literally). It cost them millions to drop him (an un-aired movie, as well as the revenue HoC brought in), but they'd have lost more if they hadn't made this decision - it was damage control. I don't mean to ramble, but I think it's an important point to note that media are only as good as the standard we hold them to - and that "standard" is a very personal thing. When enough people's standards happen to coincide, then the media will follow.

When it comes to songs like Jealous Guy, I think it comes down to personal taste. Yes the song is probably about John Lennon's own experiences around domestic violence, but it's not immediately obvious to the listener - there's still room for interpretation. I completely get why it makes you feel uncomfortable, however.

Are the radio station right to pay it? Yes.
Are you right to switch it off? Absolutely.

What about Little Mix and black magic. drinking magic potions to make you fall in love. Sounds a bit date rapey to me but it's acceptable from a teen girl band for teenage audience....?

Also missing by Everything but the girl. sinister female stalker but a beautiful song.

Merely artist subject matter IMHO. We listen to music to feel emotion and provoke thought. It shouldn't always be happy and joyous thoughts & feelings. What a monotonous world that would be.

Ok, do you realise you compared wanting to erase the objectification of women with accepting fascism

Yep. You say you're not talking about banning things. But you talk in terms of 'erasing' things.

I'll tell you something about fascism and all other forms of totalitarianism. They are always supported by people who blindly think that their ideology is right and some sort of universal eternal truth. And they go about 'erasing' and suppressing anything they disapprove of which doesn't fit in with their ideology. Fascists, Communists, religious zealots: they were all absolutely convinced of the rightness of their point of view. In fact they all thought much the same way you do.

Much as you are convinced in your rightness and think all decent people in history must have shared your views and that all decent people in the future will too, I can tell you one thing: in 200 years our descendants will look at everything people believe now and think is true and laugh that we believed such backwards stupid nonsense. We're all wrong about everything. But if we allow people the freedom to discuss different ideas and different viewpoints and feelings and emotions then at least we stand a chance of making some progress. Banning and suppressing thoughts, ideas and expression is a backward, regressive action which stilts society.

I hope someone has already pointed out that Lennon went in to become a feminist and co-wrote Woman is the Nigger of the World: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_Is_the_Nigger_of_the_World

He was amazingly open about his past because he changed so much. I think Beatles lyrics are so much more interesting when you do know a bit of the background. How sad if this insight was lost because people are a bit offended.

Whenever these threads appear, the same sixties songs are always trotted out as examples. Was wondering how long before someone started on Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - it gets so boring. OK, Neil was 22. All those songs were sung from a teenage view point. Get over it.

how about Abba's When I Kissed the Teacher? Don't hear that one on the radio much either

Yes - its the same song - but sung by a different person - the OP is outraged that John Lennon sang it so i gave her an alternative confused cantucciniamaretto

but still written by the same person. What does it matter who sings it if the song is the issue? And Bryan Ferry, dodgy fucker anyway. They all were.

If you want to tke off the radio every single piece of music by anyone who did anything bad ever, or is about anything dodgy, there will be like 4 songs left. It's as simple as that.

That In the Summertime song... I always heard it as 'if your daddy's rich, take her out for a meal, if your daddy's poor etc...' as in if you're rich you can treat her, if not it's a stroll in the park and and ice cream. Which is fine, but the actual lyrics say otherwise. Oh dear. I suppose it might mean supposing the singer is not rich also, you can just hang out chill out and do the kind of stuff we all do, while if her dad's rich you have to get your wallet out really.

I can see what you're saying about the lyrics of in the summertime, but if you take them in conjunction with the previous section of "you've got women, you've got women on your mind, have a drink have a drive, go out and see what you can find" then the nicer options seem to be less likely, iyswim.

The main impact of that song on me is the Don't Drink and Drive advert for which the song was used. I thought it was very effective, showing people having a lovely time drinking in the pub garden, driving home and then...

Anyway, just discussed this issue with teenage dcs. They both snorted at removing perceived "offensive" songs from airplay (as opposed to obviously offensive ones). He and his friends at university were talking about Friends, and couldn't believe anyone could be upset about Monica's Fat Episode and Chandler's dismay about having a trans dad. C'mon, people, surely anyone would be if their dad became a torch song singer in Las Vegas?

This is a brilliant thread, and I think it's been done on Mumsnet before.

Don't Give Up On Us Baby, the David Soul classic, does now seem tailored to Soul's blue-eyed menace. 'I nearly lost my head last night... you've got a right to stop believing. Yet you've still a little feeling, even now' or something, is the violent thug inviegling his way back into his battered lover's life with tales of repentance and soft words, surely! It's like there's the devil on her shoulder, and we're shouting no no no!

'Get down on your knees Brown Sugar' means there's one Rolling Stones song Lab shadow minister Clive Lewis will be steering clear of on karoeke...

And there is one awful awful 60s song called Come Outside with Wendy Richard and Mike Same:

Well the original post is rather scant on detail. I think if you are going to listen to a song/read book/watch film and take into account its creator's life, you have to take into account more than one aspect of it. Lennon admitted to those elements in his life, he changed, he evolved, we'll never know what else he might have done had he not been murdered.

As far as 'a song is just a song' well I don't agree with that. Even if you detach the song from its writer, it's still a product of the time and the society when it was written. It's not, oh that just rhymes/scans.

Plus not all songs are written as if the singer is the 'hero'. I know Every Breath You Take has been mentioned. It's supposed to be sinister. If people choose it as their wedding song I guess they didn't listen to it with that in mind. Another one that gets picked at wedding is Young Hearts Run Free...

Young Hearts Run Free at a wedding? Ha ha. How about Band of Gold for good measure!

Born in the USA and Perfect Day are another two that aren’t exactly happy songs.

I cringe when I hear the expression "rule of thumb"

The 'rule of thumb' has been said to derive from the belief that English law allowed a man to beat his wife with a stick so long as it is was no thicker than his thumb.

you can cringe all you like but thats a total myth

freakonomics.com/2011/07/01/rule-of-thumb/

This thread points out that there's often a double standard: we accept creepy and also bunny boiler lyrics in songs written or performed by women but not from men.

who says we accept them? I loathe the lyrics of some of the modern female artists and I'm sure I'm not alone.

NewspaperTaxis, oh that awful Mike Sarne / Wendy Richard song. Spookily I was thinking of that song the other day, and how dodgy the lyrics are - and the notion that, even if someone says no, you just keep hassling them till they say yes...

Victoria, the difference is that men don’t have a history of being murdered, raped, deprived of liberty etc by the opposite sex just because of a few anatomical differences. When women write that it’s imagination 99.99999999% of the time. When men write it there’s a good chance the women listening have already experienced whatever awful thing, or will the next time they brazenly walk to the local shop to buy some bread.

There's also that um interesting belief that women and other oppressed groups in brown and black countries should be largely left to their own devices in fighting oppression. Even though on many countries, progressives are facing an enemy willing to torture and kill to stop them. I just don't see largely "leaving them to fight their own fight" working out too well...