To think having sex as a female is dangerous

[Bumsnetnetbums]

Genuine post.
Over the last few years I have known women whom have contracted chlamydia as teens and who are infertile due to pelvic inflammatory disease. I have friends with warts. BV. Trich.
And on another thread, those with abnormal cells, and cervical cancer.
All these conditions are given to women by men. (Yes women transmit also but for men there are very few long term effects other than passing on to other women).
Pregnancy is the one bonus if ttc. But even then women have unwanted pregnancy and abortions to deal with. Neither of these are anywhere near as traumatic for men.
I have come to an age where the above are so risky and widespread that i dont think i will ever have sex again. It is hard to be in the mood when a penis can literally be like gun which shoots you and takes your health, just in a slower and more humiliating way.
I fear for my daughters. I will obviously allow the hpv vaccine. But sex is not what we thought it was as teens. It is dangerous for women.
I have said on a couple of threads about infidelity that by taking back unfaithful partners is health risking.
Women who have been cheating on are hurt from the intimacy where the partner has turned to another woman outside the marriage. They focus on whats best for the kids.
AIBU to say that the first thing women should be focussing on is their sexual health. It isnt the closeness with another woman which is worst. It is that he has totally disregarded your health to have sex with another woman not knowing what he could be bringing home.
What is right for the kids is a healthy mum. They might be upset by daddy leaving. But they will be heartbroken at mummy dying from hiv/hepatitis/cervical cancer.

rooms brilliant post

Fucking fab rooms thank you.
Someone who didnt just giggle at my analogy under the excuse of 'but I like sex'.
Its ok to like sex but not ok to ignore the damage to women done by males having sex with them.
My 8 yr old neice was sent a dick shot on skype. Not so funny is it really. Its disgusting.

Thanks.

PPs need to understand you can love sex but ALSO understand how and why sex is used in the way it is and be critical of it. These stances aren't mutually exclusive and women would be far more empowered during sex if they understood the power dynamics, the influences of porn on men during sex, the impact mainstream media has by pushing things like BDSM into everyones laps (50 shades) and This affects things for women in a ridiculous amount of ways. some are much more obvious than others.

FYI 50 shades wasn't empowering for women it was a shite piece of fiction that carried on the stupid notion that a man following you, tracking you, throwing a wobbly because you say no means he loves you

50 shades was pathetic. Women i worked with giggling like schoolgirls offering to lend copies so long as noone 'fingered the pages'

ugh! I read the first chapter to see what the fuss was about. That was enough to put me off. Then I stupidly agreed to review it. The amount of abuse I got was unreal. Called a prude, frigid, sexless, unfuckable.... Its funny because the recent books with Mr greys thoughts added just proves my point with that book those screen grabs I saw were worse than the original books

50 shades was hideous. How the fuck a story about a damaged man (abused as a child) used his abuse to form sexual fantasies involving inflicting pain and having control over a woman became mainstream is utterly beyond me.

Child abuse, control, submission of a female despite her not really wanting to. None of these things are sexy, none. And then it became acceptable to talk about this shite as if it were? Bollocks.

Whatever people do in their relationships (consensually) is entirely up to them, it’s the peddling of the notion that a submissive female and a dominant male is some kind of fantasy that females should aspire to that makes me sick.

Thank you @roomsonfire

I watched 50 shades of grey. At the end of if it I called my friend who loves it to have rant about the treatment of the woman. How I found it very disturbing because it's similar to how some women are treated in some parts of Africa by men. I remember watching tv dramas with the aim of reducing domestic violence and one of the characters was a woman who was beaten by her husband for not doing things right. He would ask her to get the a stick he kept in the house for whipping her. She would oblige and then lie down in front of him to be whipped. That disturbed me for years since I was child. Some people thought it was funny and it was something that "happens everyday", as it was the name of the show when translated into English. The men share simpler characteristics and mannerism. The very same feeling I had about that show is what I had when watching 50 shades. One was educational and the other for entertainment and making the behaviour seem ok and normal. The only difference is in society the men will come in all different forms.

I read some research saying that men in Africa like dry sex so women put toothpaste into their vaginas. But sure if this is because women with many banies are looser
Anyway this meant that the lack of natural lube that tears occurred more increasing transmission of hiv in areas where treatment wasnt free.
So many women were dying as a result, but the WHO wouldnt publish the findings as it was deemed to be racist.

My 8 yr old neice was sent a dick shot on skype. Not so funny is it really. Its disgusting

You're right; that is absolutely disgusting.

However there's so many different strands of issues at play here that I don't think we can deal with them all under on "umbrella".

There's many, many very sublte nuances involved with discussions surrounding sex that I don't think that its possible to say "having sex as a female is dangerous" and that be the end point.

Thats true Jaques. Do you care to expand at all? Im interested in how this is panning out viewswise. Am aware my views are extreme.

I was involved in the kink scene pre DC and I can tell you from my experiences the women who are submissive generally have some form of trauma and are looking for the 'safety' of that world again.

I will have pro-BDSM folk coming to tell me I am wrong shortly. Always happens. But having had lengthy discussions with older doms (those at it for decades pre 50shades etc) and female subs agree that deviant, narcissistic abusive men use the kink scene as a way to openly abuse women and live out thier control fantasies. The number of women who have some form of trauma - bullying, abuse, DV, low self esteem etc is huge and not to put those women down or blame them in anyway but their experiences of what is good sexual contact and whether they have been assault or not is often muddied because of their prior experiences. We've all seen the stories of abused women either shying away from men or throwing themselves at men because thats all they feel they are worth. In the kink scene this is magnified. The community denies these women exist but in private many women shared their stories of trauma, rape, abuse, bullying prior to finding kink.

this concerns me. Not to mention the huge issues with consent and that shitty doms consistently push boundaries beyond what women are comfortable with and its masked as 'kink' as 'this was your fantasy' but fantasy and reality are so very different. In effect I feel the kink community is hugely problematic and masks its own rape culture. Sadly this has now become mainstream. To be 'kinky' is what being bi in the 90s was its a what is expected of women. Sex positive these days means not complaining , not saying no.

I am struggling to find a great article I read via twitter from an ex sex worker, ex kink scene BDSM practicing lady. It articulates much better than what I have about sex, control, BDSM and why kink is going mainstream. If I find it I'll share. Bottom line was not all kink is abusive but almost all BDSM is. And people forget that men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed so just how consensual it is will always be up for debate.

Heads up, these links below contain stories from mostly women about the kink scene and why its problematic. They do talk about some abuse so if you've been abused you may want to skip reading them. They do all contain good points but I don't agree with each entirely.
www.vice.com/en_ca/article/kwkkea/abusive-bdsm-relationships-do-exist-despite-what-community-says-784
clarissethorn.com/2012/06/16/sm-aftercare-or-brainwashing/
liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/bdsm-is-violence-against-women/

that was a reply to quencher

I too know women who have found themselves from being sexually abused going into bdsm party scenes. One of them said it was a real safe space for them to be sexual with the knowledge that the 'elders' were looking out for her and know when she was starting to feel unsafe. A protective community by all accounts.

bums not always. your friend was extremely lucky. Our local scene has a complete knob at the helm and he is known for taking all the newbie women under his wing, pushing them hard and they rarely come back.

Im not part or it. haven't for a long time but still have friends from my time there and they are horrified by how much it has changed and the influx of generally nasty people.

I've made it to 40 year old still enjoying it and not contracted anything.

A life sex free would feel like a death sentence to me. I enjoy my husband.

Do you enjoy your husband OP?

Wow black. Sex is the last thing on mine. I have no urge whatsoever although sometimes feel attraction to some women. But very rarely. Is it the intimacy or the orgasms youd miss? Sorry if tmi.
What do you mean 'enjoy my husbsnd'? Like fancy him?

Rooms. I have heard our local community is very safe with one married couple being gatekeepers. They are spoken about highly.

I will have pro-BDSM folk coming to tell me I am wrong shortly. Always happens. But having had lengthy discussions with older doms (those at it for decades pre 50shades etc) and female subs agree that deviant, narcissistic abusive men use the kink scene as a way to openly abuse women and live out thier control fantasies. The number of women who have some form of trauma - bullying, abuse, DV, low self esteem etc is huge and not to put those women down or blame them in anyway but their experiences of what is good sexual contact and whether they have been assault or not is often muddied because of their prior experiences. We've all seen the stories of abused women either shying away from men or throwing themselves at men because thats all they feel they are worth. In the kink scene this is magnified. The community denies these women exist but in private many women shared their stories of trauma, rape, abuse, bullying prior to finding kink.

I guess I am pro-bdsm. In theory at least.

Anyhow, I have made some (in my case genuinely lovely) experiences with bdsm but I’m not a fan of what one might call the ‘scene’ at all.

Now, this might be a bit TMI but I must admit that I’ve had a certain bondage streak since... well, always. As a kid I was simply curious about knots and loved playing ‘robbers and bandits’ etc (yes, it was genuinely innocent) and then that sort of developed.

Anyhow. I would tell people that are interested in this lifestyles as a submissive to either pay someone (yes, there are huge issues around sexwork as well. But tbh, the professionals ‘domme’ I know doesn’t offer what one might call sexual services anyway....) or to try finding a good relationship with a partner that might be willing to explore this aspect of their sexuality.

But when talking about my positive bdsm experiences... I should probably mention that I mostly felt the need to be sexually submissive to other women and sexually dominant (and I do maintain that there is a vast difference between what I call ‘good bdsm’ and abuse) towards men.
And that I knew what I wanted.

I enjoy the orgasms and the intimacy although the intimacy we get many ways not just by having sex.

I think it's sad that you have no urge what so ever. Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

It sounds like you just view sex as dirty and potentially life threatening rather than the lovely act between two people very much in love as it can be.

I had a hysterectomy 3 weeks ago and very much miss penetrative sex, although we are still having an active sex life together.

Do you care to expand at all?

I think for me you have to make a very clear distinction between coersive sex and non-coersive actions.

So the example of an unsolicited dick pic (and the extreme example of an 8 year old receiving one) is a world away from a couple who enjoy erotic photography consesually and with boundaries?

Or a young girl feeling pressured into sex is a world away from an adult woman who knows and manages her own dislikes.

Personally I couldn't do without sex. I absolutely love it from the physical sensations to the emotional. That said I minimise risk absolutely by practising safe (casual) sex with someone I know and trust and get myself check regularly (as does he).

My base position is do what you want provided you want to and keep safe. For me that's more healthy than seeing the penis as a weapon; because of course whilst it has the potential to become so, (I realise this is a NAMALT) that isn't a given in any one scenario.

Basically, OP, I think it's a bit of a lost cause when you, who have no urge to have sex with men, try to tell women for whom it is one of the great sources of enjoyment in life that they shouldn't feel that way. They do. End of story.

Nothing wrong with you feeling the way you do. But unless you are a very emotionally intelligent person, it pretty well precludes you understanding how somebody else's priorities may be totally different.

JaquesHammer puts it very well: there is a huge difference between those who have sex because and when they want to and those who are coerced in any way. The former category may be bigger than you think.

Anyhow. I would tell people that are interested in this lifestyles as a submissive to either pay someone (yes, there are huge issues around sexwork as well. But tbh, the professionals ‘domme’ I know doesn’t offer what one might call sexual services anyway....) or to try finding a good relationship with a partner that might be willing to explore this aspect of their sexuality.

I advocate this too. Especially if women are into BDSM to hire a female worker. Its generally safer for the woman. I agree with the sex work issues but understand the sex work hierarchy and that dommes tend to provide a service that is sexual in nature for the client but the acts they preform on the client isn't a huge risk to them in the way street prostitution is a risk. I hope that makes sense.

for me its sort of bondage too but more compression in the wearing corsets or being bound with rope in a similar fashion. My hands have to be free though. Few men respected that hence me no longer being involved. It is worth noting I do have sensory difficulties and my Kink may stem from that.

Kink can be mostly positive but dipping into fetlife and seeing men detail their fantasies for people accidentally seeing their chastity devices, Or men wanting to listen to women pee, get caught wearing women clothes etc so effectively removing consent and forcing your kink on someone else. You begin to realise the whole kink scene has huge problems with consent that aren't always talked about and if consent is void in the scenarios above... its concerning.

and yes good BDSM isnt abuse but thanks to shitty fiction the boundaries between what is good and what is abuse are murkier so a newbie wont always know that they are being manipulated or abused plus the fact women rarely speak up about abuse for fear of not being believed compounding the issue

bums thats great. I find some local groups are fantastic and follow a pretty decent 'moral code' but others don't. Its not always easy to tell. I have been in good groups, sadly I live in an area when the local group doesnt care much for consent with other people- happily do things in public because they want the thrill of being caught but give zero fucks about the effect on the person who sees. And we're not talking a quickie in the woods but full BDSM play where its not so easy to be discreet.

Thanks @roomsonfire again and the others. It makes interesting reading.

Sex is the last thing on mine. I have no urge whatsoever although sometimes feel attraction to some women. But very rarely. Is it the intimacy or the orgasms youd miss? Sorry if tmi. I love sex. I look forward to having sex. I dream about having sex. However, it would be wrong to be oblivious to the side effects of sex. The currency of sex, the dangers it posses on women who are unlucky. To a degree, all women are victims of sex as concept (Not sexual abuse) it affects our lives one way or another.

The act itself is still great when no is coerced, raped, sexually abused and all the vile things that comes with having a wrong sexual partner.

@Bumsnetnetbums good point at 11:06. In regards to the spread of hiv what you said is true. And that excluding those who are genetically mutilated in groups where lots of girls catch hiv. It's absolutely depressing.

Yes it is. I think some women just deny it because to think that sexually men and women are equals is inaccurate.
You are probably right about the act itself but I wonder how many peoples experiences are trully consentual and free?

You are probably right about the act itself but I wonder how many peoples experiences are trully consentual and free?

Absolutely 100% of mine.

As far as I am concerned my sexual life is exactly equal to that of a man. That shouldn't mean that I don't acknowledge that is true for everyone and that is something that we need to change as a society.