Labour has totally lost the plot wit Identity Politics?

[bambambini]

Labour Youth are advertising posts and have positions ring marked for “self identifying women only” to encourage more women into politics. Just seems a really strange way of describing women and actually means that all the posts could go males instead of females (can’t really use women any more). Can’t wrap my mind round how identity politics has become so prolific and taking priority or biology. The future doesn’t seem to have much place for females. Labout Woman’s officer Lily Madigan on it.?I’d like to see what Labour women think of this.

for someone so intent on not being labelled yourself you seem pretty keen to label transwomen

Lyra, we're not trying to label transwomen, just objecting to them appropriating the term 'woman' for themselves when it belongs to us. We have a 'label', it is WOMEN, no cis or other additions necessary because it is a biological fact.

Not all women have the same experiences - you might find you have a lot more in common with a transwoman from a similar socio-economic background as you than you do with a Ciswoman who grew up in a very different environment to you.
Lyra,of course all women don't have the same experiences,and I have a lot more in common with ,eg,my husband,than with some other women.We share opinions,attitudes,ways of looking at the world,because we are from similar backgrounds and have been together a long time.
That doesn't make him a woman,or me a man.What we don't share is the commonality of lived experience which I do share with other women because we are adult human females.IMO it's a mistake to think that because not all experiences are shared by all women there is not an overall "experience" linked to being biologically female.

8 transgender women murdeered since 2008 according to this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080711-UK-transgender-murder-rate

Jenny17, it's actually only 6 if you read the thread.

None killed by TERFs.

In response to the earlier assertion, these are the stats on the murder of transgender people :

fairplayforwomen.com/fact-checker/trans-murder-rates

In short, in the UK transgender people are very rarely murdered and the risk is no greater than the average person.

It's not surprising that many people are mistaken about this:

Even in years when there have been no murders of transgender people in the UK, Transgender Remembrance Day is solemnly marked by many organisations while the murders of women (two per week are murdered by a current or former partner in England and Wales alone) go largely uncommemorated.

Trans murders in other countries are reported worldwide whereas women getting killed by their partners is so run-of-the-mill that, unless it is done , say, in a busy supermarket or in some unusual way, it is barely newsworthy.

If you google something like "women killed in 2017" you'll get loads of search results about transwomen (a lot of trans-identified males work in IT).

Other than demonstrating how little women's lives are valued, this misrepresentation of the facts has dangerous consequences for women.

One of the many areas of conflict between trans rights and women's rights is whether biological males who identify as women should be allowed access to women's domestic abuse refuges. Looking objectively at the statistics, many women are at risk of being murdered by violent men and need to be able to escape to a place they can be sure their ex-partner can't access. Allowing biological males to access women's refuges puts many women at risk of being murdered (and, no, they don't have to do anything drastic like cut of their penis to gain access, they just need to say 'I identify as a woman').

The misinformation about high murder rates of transwomen makes many people swallow the lie that transwomen are the most oppressed, vulnerable people ever, that biological women have 'cis privilege'(ie the "privileged position" that comes with being a woman) and, therefore, leads to decisions which put women at risk.

Pisacake sorry.

They lost the plot years ago

Stick you transgender day of remembrance up your arse. I don't want to hear about it.

There was an event in Rotherham. Apparently an MTF was killed there in 1950. Quite a few women have been killed there in the 67 years since then, and there was the small matter of a massive recent street grooming and child trafficking scandal, which is probably still happening. But observing trans day of remembrance is clearly a key priority for the town.

really? 1950? do you have any links? A proper transwoman, or a retrospectively transed gay bloke?

The misinformation about high murder rates of transwomen makes many people swallow the lie that transwomen are the most oppressed, vulnerable people ever, that biological women have 'cis privilege'(ie the "privileged position" that comes with being a woman)

And also that any hint of disagreement or non validation of these people's highly fragile identities directly leads to their deaths. As if violent men take all their views from gender critical women and if gender critical views were not advanced by feminists no one would see MTFs as male and would unquestioningly believe that they were women. It's quite a reach!

really? 1950? do you have any links? A proper transwoman, or a retrospectively transed gay bloke?

Now that I don't know. And am only assuming that was the reason for the TDOR event. It seemed weird to me that one was happening in Rotherham so I googled and found it on Wikipedia. It's a bit late to go looking now, but I can find it tomorrow.

afaik they do trans day of remembrance everywhere, just because they can't shut up about it. i'm sure it's not specific to rotherham.

Now give the figure for murdered transwomen?

The UK is one of the safest European countries to live. In fact, there were no reported transgender murders in the UK at all in 2016. Since the start of the Trans Murder Monitoring project in 2008 there has beenon average just under 1 transgender person murdered in the UK each year.

fairplayforwomen.com/fact-checker/trans-murder-rates

This page takes its statistics from the Trans Murder Monitoring Project, GIRES and the ONS.

In the UK, transwomen are more likely to be murderers than murdered.

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are

You've lifted that directly from a statement about black women. You've just changed "white women" to "cis women" at the end of the statement.

I'm not a cis woman. I'm a woman end of story. I don't accept your label.

The whole way that transactivists ate barging their way into womens' spaces smacks of socialised males using male privilege to get their way.

I hope MN don't pull this thread or I'll be asking why they haven't pulled threads, particularly in the last few days, that have blatantly racist comments on them.

As I see it, straight white male privilege is No.1 in this (unfortunate) world. & at the point you start to aim to tread on it's toes, you'll have far more than what women think to worry yourselves about

On a completely tangential point this is the kind of nonsense that will persuade people to vote Tory in your next election.

I think Labour are pretty complacent about their core voters. They're chasing the youth vote with everything they've got. And I can understand that but they're behaving extremely contemptuously towards women. And maybe I will hold my nose and vote for them next time. And maybe I won't.

Transwomen are NO more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the UK. Source: ONS and Trans Media Monitoring Project. They are certainly much less likely to be raped than women according to crime figures. Why do trans activists keep pushing this big lie?

We see this so often on here - everywhere in fact - people striding in outraged, slating us for our terrible 'transphobia' and claiming that transgender people are the most oppressed, subject to the most violence, the most likely to be murdered. Thanks all who keep tirelessly repeating logic and facts and sticking up for women, whom, it becomes clearer and clearer, no-one cares very much about at all.

On a completely tangential point this is the kind of nonsense that will persuade people to vote Tory in your next election.

Always been left leaning so should be a labour voter though sadly didn’t in the last general election due to my candidate. I’d still struggle to ever vote Tory even though we’re in the 1% demographic and could vote Tory for our own interests

I’d like a moderate left leaning alternative though. The Lily Madigan affair, the parties stance on identity politics, Owen Jones and the other lefty male wankers screaming at women for being bigots (for daring to know what a woman is and have boundaries), Stella Creasy refusing to answer my polite questions on our concerns whilst choosing to highlight more insulting/aggressive responses instead to show women as being unreasonsble aggressive harpy bigots - has really pushed me away.

Labour can fuck off - from a born and raised Labour (former) supporter.

I think Labour are pretty complacent about their core voters. They're chasing the youth vote with everything they've got. And I can understand that but they're behaving extremely contemptuously towards women. And maybe I will hold my nose and vote for them next time. And maybe I won't.

Aye, fucking aye. It’s the contempt they are showing, their rush to break down society as we know and navigate it by raising individual feelings above tangible physical reality (which just happens to shit on women more than men) to appeal to kids to gain votes.

Labour can fuck off - from a born and raised Labour (former) supporter

I feel exactly the same.

I'm feeling the same way about Labour I have always voted for them but can't see myself doing so again whilst they are behaving like this. I think there's got to be some sort of reassessment now of what actually constitutes a woman. I think biological women need to have special protections and trans identified men different protections. We are not the same. Trans women are not women.