Labour has totally lost the plot wit Identity Politics?

[bambambini]

Labour Youth are advertising posts and have positions ring marked for “self identifying women only” to encourage more women into politics. Just seems a really strange way of describing women and actually means that all the posts could go males instead of females (can’t really use women any more). Can’t wrap my mind round how identity politics has become so prolific and taking priority or biology. The future doesn’t seem to have much place for females. Labout Woman’s officer Lily Madigan on it.?I’d like to see what Labour women think of this.

Can someone please explain to me (perhaps you Lyra) what gender is??
I don't subscribe to gender so therefore there is no such thing as "changing gender". I come from a science background where there are two sexes- male and female. This is based on hormones (real hormones, not synthetic), chromosomes, genitalia, and reproductive systems.
These cannot be changed.
I don't believe in "gender" and therefore this trans nonsense is a load of absolute bollocks.

sexandgenderintro.com/

Always worth a read.

Lyra - I've done more than minimal internet research over the last few months, to try to understand the sort of claims thrown about transwomen's oppression, but I haven't found the information you say is readily available

Can you link one or two reputable sources please?

Transwomen are women - check
Cis - check
Trans people are the most oppressed ever of all people ever ever - check.
Claims to back up above which don't stand up to critical (or any) thinking and basic internet searches - check.
Honestly, the same crap arguments every single time.
You're going to get your arse handed to you on here if you can't put forward a logical argument.

So I'm back to wanting to understand what about being a woman it is that trans women identify with that means they believe they are women.

I'm finding it hard to think of things other than a desire to show off boobs and wear skirts and makeup - something which trans women I meet seem to embrace (but I have never really done).

People like Lyra sneer at Mumsnet feminists and imply we're in an echo chamber but have never had the experience of actually having to defend their ill thought through beliefs. Most of us are well practiced in defending our views on this forum and others, and in conversations with family, colleagues etc. Sorry, who exactly is in the echo chamber?

Transwomen have the same offending rates as men.

Two women are killed a week by their partners, former partners or another family member.

If I want to prove something, I generally provide my sources. I don't make statements and tell those disagreeing with me to go and find evidence that they themselves are wrong.

Did we get an answer to what trans people think a women is. Even better if we can get the definition of real woman that has been thrown about recently.

It's the Question that never gets answered properly polar.
Although I have been told there's a pink bit in the brain by trans supporters on Twitter.

Sounds highly scientific.

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research

hahahaha!

I'd do a bit more than the 'minimal' research if I were you. Because that statement is the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen.

Try the reverse, women are much, much more statistically likely to suffer from all those things and more.

And guess who perpetrates most of the violence and assault on women. That's right, men. That includes transwomen (for now, as soon as they start fudging the statistics it's going to look like mysteriously women have grown much more violent and are now capable of rape )

'Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. '

In the UK? Where do your figures come from?

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research.

Now I know you're a loon - biological women are a thousand times more likely to be victims. In the U.K. Statistically transwomen are more likely to be perpetrators than victims.

It's just worded that way so that transwomen aren't excluded. There's no need for frantic pearl-clutching.

Transwomen should be excluded from women’s posts because they are men. These are posts for women. What is so difficult and controversial about this?

Transwomen face some of the worst and most horrific oppression of any group of people in the world

If you're female Lyra, you ought to be so utterly ashamed of yourself posting that. Have you any idea how many millions of women currently living have had their genitals mutilated, mostly as children and with no anaesthetic? Do you know how many girls have been forced to be child brides? Have you ever researched fistulas post-childbirth in the developing world or seen pictures of women who have set themselves alight to escape violent marriages in countries like Pakistan?

Your ignorance is abhorrent. Some transwomen have faced prejudice. Some transwomen have been murdered (mostly those who work as sex workers). It is nothing like on the scale of what women have experienced.

Can we get 'Cis' banned as hate speech.

I get an extremely visceral reaction to it now when I read it. It feels like an attack, and I'm upset at having a derogatory label forced on me.

Is my sex not a protected characteristic anymore? Can any nutter with access to the internet be allowed to redefine it for me?

I don’t self define as a woman that means as a woman I am barred from applying for posts designated for women.

Those figures come from countries where transwomen are almost all in the sex industry.
In the UK, transwomen are not in this kind of physical danger.

In the UK, 2 women per week are murdered by male partners, whereas there are very few murders of transwomen

I get an extremely visceral reaction to it now when I read it. It feels like an attack, and I'm upset at having a derogatory label forced on me.

I know what you mean. It's goady as fuck. I don't think trans allies grasp this. Although I don't think she used it after she was requested not to.

If people here don't think sex and gender are the same thing why are they saying you have to have female sex characteristics in order to be a woman?

Because being a woman is only about being an adult human female. It's about your biology alone. You can't identify out of your biology and stop any oppression you face as a result of it.

Gender is a social construct. It's not real. Ideally life would change so that people could do what they wanted (so women would have no barriers to being scientists and wearing trousers, say, and men could wear pink and enjoy putting on mascara if that floated their boat). But those things don't ever change your biology. A female engineer wearing trousers isn't suddenly male. Wearing mascara also doesn't mean you're female.

I get an extremely visceral reaction to it now when I read it. It feels like an attack, and I'm upset at having a derogatory label forced on me.

I feel the same. I'm not cis.

Care to prove that assertion?

I doubt they can

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research.

This is actually scary; that this nonsensical narrative is seriously gaining traction - that the most vulnerable women in our society are being thrown under the bus like this.

YABU and bollocks though that trans comes from Labour identity politics. Or from Liberal.

Trans is not a left / right issue
It would be so much easier to combat if it was
Trans delusions sprang up over the last few years and have infected most of political, social and business life

Supporters of all parties are happy to ignore biology
to take hard-earned rights away from women and give to a subset of men

Some trans supporters have come from the right, e.g. Tory MP and former Cabinet Marie Miller

Some from the religious right, who can't accept being gay or lesbian, so push gay family members into declaring as trans.
Iran certainly aren't Liberal, but half their "women's" national football team are just castrated gay men - because trans is acceptable, whereas homosexuality is punishable by death or jail.

Two women per week murdered in the UK by their partners

Now give the figure for murdered transwomen ?