Labour has totally lost the plot wit Identity Politics?

[bambambini]

Labour Youth are advertising posts and have positions ring marked for “self identifying women only” to encourage more women into politics. Just seems a really strange way of describing women and actually means that all the posts could go males instead of females (can’t really use women any more). Can’t wrap my mind round how identity politics has become so prolific and taking priority or biology. The future doesn’t seem to have much place for females. Labout Woman’s officer Lily Madigan on it.?I’d like to see what Labour women think of this.

Absolutely yes yes to all of those responses to Lyras posts!

I completely agree. The Left has completely lost the plot because of its obsession with the politics of identity and hierarchies of victimhood and 'oppression'.

Labour grew out of the Trade Unions for the purpose of representing the economic interests of ordinary working people in parliament. That is what Labour should still do, but the party has been completely hijacked by university educated, right-on middle class Guardian readers who are obsessed with identity politics but have never done a blue-collar job in their lives.

And they wonder why Leave won the referendum and places like Mansfield voted Tory at the last election....

WHat Bonnie said.

It's honestly too depressing even to talk to you. Transwomen face some of the worst and most horrific oppression of any group of people in the world and here are you lot siding with the oppressors because you think being able to menstuate or give birth are the only possible experiences of womanhood that matter. I've reported all your comments for transphobia (although it won't do any good since MN seems entirely happy to let transphobia flourish on these boards). All I can say is that if some of you looked a little further than MN threads for your feminism you might not still be holding opinions from the dark ages.

Excellent way to put it.
I'd never thought of it that way before.

you think being able to menstuate or give birth are the only possible experiences of womanhood that matter

Lyra, I am genuinely interested in hearing what experiences you think define women.

"Transwomen face some of the worst and most horrific oppression of any group of people in the world' WTAF?

Yeah, that's right, Lyra. Transwomen facing some of the most horrific oppression. Tell that to girls whose genitalia are mutilated to conform to some patriarchal system, to women and girls who are sold into sex slavery, to women and girls who are victims of conflict violence. Wake the fuck up.

I would say that menstruating and being able to give birth are fundamentally female experiences. My very PC ds tries to call me 'cis', and has been told where to get off, just as he was when he tried to explain to me how a female would perceive rape. As the only one in the conversation in possession of a vagina, I felt my view was more appropriate than his.

You Lyra, do not get to label me. I am a woman, not a cis woman, but a woman, an adult human female, and I have been female from birth. There is no way that a trans person who thinks they are a woman can have had the same experiences as me growing up when they are male.

Lyra-There aren’t any ‘experiences of womanhood’ that make you female. You’re confusing gender with biological sex. A female is defined biologically. Not by experiences.

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research.

@polaricecaps - my point is that I don't think there is a list of experiences that define being a woman because we all have such diverse experiences! And it just seems nonsensical to me that transphobic women resort to listing biological functions like menstuation and birth as being the only important female experiences when not all woman - cis or otherwise - experience these things and when they make up such a tiny part of being a woman.

@scaryteacher for someone so intent on not being labelled yourself you seem pretty keen to label transwomen 🙄

I would have to state I 'self-define as a woman' on application, rather than be filling it in because I a m a woman? Bollocks to that.

Yes, how many actual females self define as women/girls - as though that’s what makes us women/girls rather than our biology. The more i think about it the angrier i get.

Nobody with any scientific credibility now considers biological sex and gender to be the same thing.

No one here considers biological sex and gender to be the same thing. "Gender" is a restrictive social construct. It's sex role stereotyping. Gender (sex) dysphoria is a thing. It's a mental health condition.

Transwomen face some of the worst and most horrific oppression of any group of people in the world

Care to prove that assertion?

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked,

In the UK, in the past few years i think there have been more TW commit murder than TW murdered i could be wrong of course:

@ereshkigal if people here don't think sex and gender are the same thing why are they saying you have to have female sex characteristics in order to be a woman?

These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research.

No, they're propaganda.

Transwomen are statistically more likely to be raped, to be murdered, to be sexually assaulted or violently attacked, to be discriminated against at work, to be homeless, to be paid less than their peers, and to be the victims of domestic violence than ciswomen are. These are facts, available for you to check for yourselves with minimal online research

lol.

You can "self identify" as a woman all you want. Doesn't escape the fact you're male.

It’s a bit of a double whammy for women self identifying as men.

sex = female for a woman
Gender = feminine (traits attributed by society to women)

if people here don't think sex and gender are the same thing why are they saying you have to have female sex characteristics in order to be a woman?

Don't you get it? People here don't actually believe in "gender". It's imposed on women. We are women because we are female. There is no other meaning.