Disabled pregnant friend, AIBU?

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Please help! My friend has just discovered she is pregnant. She has a learning disability serious enough that she needs a carer. She is kind and sweet and a joy to be around but she isn't able to cope on her own (she needs help with anything financial, buying food etc). She can't cope with any loud noises, she has to leave the room. She struggles as well with any problems, she will get upset and repeat herself, asking the same question over and over until someone helps her. However she is so excited at the thought of being a mum.

Her partner has no disability but is convinced she'll learn how to look after the baby and he can carry on with his life and work as normal. I want to shake him.

I am terrified that she has no idea of what being a parent really means and nor does her partner. So, am I being unreasonable to be really scared for her and the baby, and honestly think this is a bad idea? Anyone been in a similar situation? What help will they get in terms of care? Will her partner be expected to stay home to care for the baby? Will they be given childcare to cover the hours her partner is at work (this is what they think will happen).
Thank you all in advance.

so the op can contact a SW who is bound by patient confidentially laws ( equivalent)?

OP, you are a good friend.
Like TheFirstMrsDV I have some professional and private experience of the challanges outlined here and I'm sorry to second that the outlook is often not great; from unintentional neglect to downright tragedy.
It's good that we discuss things like the horrors of government legislated steralisation, but when it comes down to it it's a massive grey area. I have accompanied women with LD to get the contraceptive inplant after thorogh discussions with their carers and social workers weather or not becoming a parent would be the right option for them and how it would impact their day-to-day life. Were these discussions 'leading the witness'? Sure. Did the carers and social workers have the women's best interests and well being in mind? 100%.

That wasn't what I said Samcro

I said I took it to mean the OP will be helping her friend and her DP, in what questions to ask.

Much like when my friend is talking about her grandchild and says "So we rang the doctor", when she means her DD rang but she was supporting her at the time.

This is so difficult OP. I'm wondering if you've been friends a long time and have become a part of this lady's support network? If so, then it seems reasonable to help her navigate this new situation, as well as talking to her social worker (have you had contact with her care team before?).

She may need your support even more if decisions are made that are difficult for her to understand or cope with, especially if you've been a constant in her life for quite a while.

Does she have family support from her parents/siblings/extended family?

WorraLiberty sorry I get what your saying, it was just reading the thread I
got the feeling posters think the op can ring the persons SW(which she won't have as if she is settled will be duty SW) and they will talk to op.
they won't

I, too, see red flags at the idea of someone who is severely affected enough by learning disabilities being impregnated by a man who "often doesn't understand what she needs". This sounds incredibly concerning before we even begin to look at the impact a baby will have.

I'm a trained, experienced Maternity Nanny and I can struggle massively with babies, as pretty much everyone on here knows - they're extraordinarily hard work even for those of us lucky enough to not have additional disadvantages.

Samcro - just to clarify re confidentiality. If OP rings her friend's social worker / team, you are right, they won't discuss friend with OP, as that would breach confidentiality. However OP can talk about said friend. Can say name, DOB, address, 'I understand x is with your team. I wanted to pass on some important information.' Can give all the details. Team will say thank you for info. OP unlikely to get feedback.

Actually OP, bearing all that in mind, I'd contact the local children and families service directly as well, same info.

You sound like a lovely friend 💐

I hope you can help her access some support & that the best outcome for the baby is achieved, and that this is also the best outcome for your friend.

I have a relative who, from the little you've said, seems to have similar difficulties to your friend. He couldn't cope with loud noises or disagreement, and couldn't keep a schedule or do multi-step tasks (eg making a bottle of formula) without help. He also needed things explaining several times. His wife also had LD, possibly seen as "more severe" although she had good self-care skills and did some work with support.

My relative looked forward to becoming a SAHD. However, he would get distressed when the baby cried, forget to change her nappy, couldn't clean up vomit due to sensory issues, and found being a dad very stressful although he loved his DD. In the end, his DW gave up work to look after the baby, and they split when the baby was 2 or 3 due to (in her words) him being "annoying with DD".. He now doesn't have any unsupervised contact.

On the other hand, his wife is an amazing mother and has two more DC with her new partner. A social worker helped her make a visual schedule, and signposted her to other help, eg a breastfeeding support group for DC2 in the hope that she would find that easier than measuring formula. I haven't spoken to her for a couple of years now, but when I last spoke she was coping well without any particular external support.

I'm not sure there's any way of knowing whether or not your friend will be a good mum (there's no way of knowing with non-disabled people either, to be honest!) but I do worry with the parallels to my relative.

Could you offer to give her some very informal help with your DC, eg show her how to change a nappy if yours are still that age? A friend did that for me before I had DD1 - not because there was any particular reason I'd struggle with parenting, but just because I was nervous - and it was excellent. It would also help her show SW that she's been proactive in learning about parenting before DC arrives.

I can only give the one experience that I've come across:

Mum (22) with moderate LD had dc1 taken off her and given to mum, she then fell pregnant again and it was decided that it was in the best interests of the baby that he/she would be put up for adoption immediately at birth.

She was living on her own, and only had financial support. However, she realistically needed more support in activities of daily living and with whom she associated with.

Unfortunately the support was just not there to provide it. I've never heard of someone having child care support, I'm willing to be told I am wrong though.

All the best for your friend.

There was more money in the pot then, 😢

I dont know there was a documentary i saw on you tube about a disabled couple who were bringing up their baby together,, they had mental disabilites not terribly severe or anything but you could tell they were different

I have two teens with LD, ASD and ADHD. SO this is a problem I am aware of. I would however say that many people with LD have meaningful relationship and I am a bit appalled at the people who seem to think people with LD shouldn't have a sex life!
Our two children are adopted, their BM had mental health problems and lead a very chaotic life but she had loads of help from SS to parent her children they really bent over backwards to try everything to help her. DD was born with hip dysplasia and had to be in a cast for the first few months of her life. DM couldn't cope with this and an O.T. from the hospital came out every day to change DD's bandages etc.
Really the last thing SS want is to take a child into care, it is a heck of a lot more expensive than keeping them in their birth home.
If a child comes from a BM with a disability (which they may inherit) then they are much more likely to be adopted so are more likely to stay in care.

Should read - much less likely to be adopted!

I feel sorry for the Child, I know a few people with learning difficulties and their children have spent most of their childhoods caring for their parent. Not a good situation, hopefully the father will step up.

Lots of great advice here

I have a friend who was born to an intellectually disabled mother. The dad had taken advantage to put it lightly and was removed from the picture. My friend was raised by her mother, along with her grandmother and aunt. Hopefully an arrangement like that can happen for the sake of the baby.

Seconded re all those who have expressed concerns that in the long run the kid (assuming OP's friend gets to keep said kid) may/will end up having to act as a career to his/her Mum and how sad and unfair that would be. No child should have to be a career. Children should get to be children without having to look after the grown ups who are supposed to be looking after them. :(

This isn't about not valuing the lives of disabled people, this is about saying someone who can't even look after themselves without a carer cannot realistically look after another person.

Fact - most babies and small children make a lot of noise.
Fact - raising a child is stressful and parents need to be resilient to cope when things go wrong, (OP's friend doesn't sound like she would be able to unfortunately)
Fact - it takes more than just being kind and caring to look after and raise a child, unfortunately.
Fact - this isn't a simple matter of saying that OP's friend has LD therefore she won't be able to cope with being a parent, which WOULD be disablism. It's drawing a sad but imo unavoidable conclusion based on specific traits/manifestations of her LD which the OP has outlined which are wholly inconsistent with parenting.

Having children isn't a right, it's a massive responsibility and I wish more people would recognise that.

Alison Lapper had a TON of concern from SS and had to really fight to prove her worth. Agencies were running around like headless chickens in the background.
AL is a very intelligent, resourceful person who was able to deal with authorities and understood that she had to cooperate with SS.

WRT to funding for support. Its not only support from statutory agencies that has been cut. Think of all the charities that have closed or cut their services.

Its brutal out there IME. Even children with disabilities teams are only working with CP cases in some areas.
I cannot see an LA funding the sort of support a parent with the degree of LDs in the OP would need to keep her child. Not when there is a partner able but not willing to do it.

People with LDs CAN parent well but they do need support. The support is going so more children will end in care and being adopted with all the trauma and long term cost that involves.

There are lots of ways we can support parents with disabilities. Lots of ways that families can remain together and children thrive.
They cost a LOT and no-one wants to pay it.

I would say child carers need more than support. They need not to be carers.

Totally agree MrsDV

I can say from working in this field that there are occasionally some surprising and happy outcomes, sadly they are few and far between. All the cases I am aware of where children have been able to remain with their parents has been where one of the parents is NT or has very mild LD.

Parents with learning disabilities shouldn't be written off though just because of their disability. In my experience it usually takes a bloody minded adult services social worker to stand up for the rights of the parents to ensure that children's services don't just write them off as people with LD. Things like family assessment units, specialist family support workers etc are available in these circumstances and any decent children and families solicitor should be fighting for all these sorts of support to be considered and utilised where possible before a final decision is made in court. Lack of willingness to pay for them by the LA isn't an excuse if the facilities are readily available and could be deemed to have some assessment benefit.

There are many adults out there today that were brought up by parents with a mild undiagnosed LD, yes it maybe wouldn't happen as easily these days because of better awareness and screening throughout education, but having an LD doesn't necessarily mean a complete inability to parent.

I would say child carers need more than support. They need not to be carers.

True and a very poignant thought.

AL is a very intelligent, resourceful person who was able to deal with authorities and understood that she had to cooperate with SS.

In my experience this is the key. Difficulties can be overcome if they're acknowledged and engaged with and that is what social workers look for. In my case they left me to it because they were 100% confident, because of my engagement with them and other professionals, that I had the resources to recognise if I was struggling and the will to seek help.