To think that my PIP assessor has deliberately told lies?

[Godstopper]

Previous thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3107566-AIBU-to-be-terrified-of-my-PIP-assessment

To update: I requested a copy of the assessor's report which arrived today. If the DWP decision maker follow this (as I expect they will), then I will lose £90 a month as I'll only receive standard care. I have a total of ten points: 2 for requiring an aid to bathe and 8 for communicating (deaf).

I recorded the assessment (with permission). The assessor can be heard on tape 3-5 times asking if I wanted to stop as I was visibly upset. She can also be heard offering me a tissue.

Here are some of the lies (I have no qualms about making this public - people need to see what is going on):

Cooking: "Reported restrictions that her partner will do most of the cooking. She feels that she is unsafe due to vertigo, reduced concentration, reduced motivation, requires supervision and prompting to be able to cook. Whilst acknowledging that she receives some cognitive behavioural therapy once a week for her mental health she appears well nourished. Therefore it would be clinically probable that she is able to carry out this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Managing Therapy: "Reports that she is taken to therapy once a week by her partner. Functional history however reports that she will go into therapy on her own. She did not appear withdrawn and did not require prompting. She attends the therapy sessions on her own. Therefore it is clinically probable that she is able to complete this activity independently in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner on the majority of days."

Engaging with People: Reports to have restrictions engaging with others. Functional history reports that she is able to engage with her partner. Informal observations - did not require prompting, did not appear anxious, able to engage adequately well at assessment, adequate eye contact and rapport was maintained at assessment. Whilst acknowledging that she has cognitive behavioural therapy she did not appear withdrawn or anxious. Therefore it is clinically probable that she can perform this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Mobility: "Reported restriction that she is unsafe due to her deafness and mental health problems. Will attend GP appointments on her own (THE SURGERY IS LITERALLY DOWN THE ROAD!). She did not appear withdrawn and did not need prompting. Therefore it is clinically probable that he (!!) could carry out this activity independently on the majority of days in a reliable, repeated, and safe manner."

And on it goes.

We are obviously off to appeal: it is now my mission to ensure that the cost of this dwarfs the £90 a month that they will save by awarding me a reduced rate. All lies are on tape. I am also going to do my best to impact her professionally by complaining to her registration body and taking it as far as I possibly can. A complaint about the quality of the report will also be made to ATOS.

Their response will determine if the recording makes it into the public domain. I am not afraid to name and shame either.

She couldn't lie about my deafness (I had an interpreter) but thought she could get me on my MH issues. This is what is happening to vulnerable people under reforms and it's disgusting.

but you also have to prepare to run your claim as a military campaign with DWP as your enemy! You have to know all their tricks, be fully aware and able to counter their lies and omissions at every turn

This. My DLA actually went up when I improved - because I became well enough to tackle the forms more proactively so they got all relevant information whether they'd asked for it or not.

Basically you have to give "politician's answers". Treat the question as a space to give all the information you want to give, regardless of what's narrowly asked for.

Hi Strange,

Yes, I think that's partly what happened with mine. Trained to assess a wide range of conditions? Right. Mine said she'd never had an interpreter in an assessment before and seemed a bit perplexed about what they do.

No recognition of how deafness impacts life beyond finding it difficult to hear people. In my case, there was zero recognition of how it contributes to mental health issues. Of course being unaware of what is going on is going to magnify anxiety. But it's o.k because "going into therapy sessions on my own" means I can "engage with people unaided."

I hope I never run into her again otherwise I'm likely to have violent urges!

Yes, it's dreadful. My first PIP assessor two years ago was like this - had to go to tribunal to get a result. Took over a year start to finish. Just had to renew and had second assessment, thankfully by a different person, with a better result. I'm still baffled as to how she 'performed a musculoskeletal examination' when all she did was walk round the desk and look at my (fully clothed) legs from 3 feet away. Anyhow was awarded a higher amount than the last claim, and for 5 years. One thing that really bugs me is the 'plan and follow a journey' question. I cannot get my head round it. As I said to the nurse doing my assessment - 'given time and maps I could plan a journey to Timbuctoo, but I couldn't actually get to the there'... planning and executing are two entirely different things aren't they? This particular question really needs to be addressed and rewritten.

Gobstopper, yes, my assessor didn't at all understand the interrelation of different conditions. I am also (almost) blind, and she just could not seem to understand that my level of deafness has much greater impact on me than it would on someone who is not blind.

Mine lied profusely. So badly it was in the press. In the process of sueing now.

Oh, how are you sueing, Valerrie, if you don't mind telling us?

(Don't if you're worried about being outed.)

I've got good evidence for mine having lied, but don't know what she's done that breaks the law.

Do any of these PIP assessors (the nurses) get reported to the NMC and investigated for bad practice? From what I have read, everything a PIP assessor (and an ESA assessor, come to that)) goes against the ethics of the NMC.

I've just contacted a solicitor and I'm claiming for mental distress. They were absolute bastards to me and it made me very ill.

Thank you, that's interesting.

I can easily prove the lie (thank you, recording) but would probably struggle to prove mental distress.

In general I'm keen to examine the tack of putting the actual liars in the dock.

I suspect they're doing it under encouragement/pressure from management, but they're colluding with management and after all we can only push back on the people who are directly pushing on us. I also feel it would be beneficial across a lot of departments to create a consequence for lying while in public service.

Do any of these PIP assessors (the nurses) get reported to the NMC and investigated for bad practice? From what I have read, everything a PIP assessor (and an ESA assessor, come to that)) goes against the ethics of the NMC

I believe a fair few people have made complaints to the NMC about nurse trained PIP assessors conduct. I think too but don't have the details there have been complaints that the NMC are not addressing this more.

@emmageddon, below is an article from December that shares that the "The body that oversees the UK’s health and care regulators is considering taking action over their failure to punish nurses, paramedics and physiotherapists who write dishonest benefit assessment reports.

The Professional Standards Authority (PSA) is to look next month at whether it should examine the failings of the Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC) and the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC)."

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/regulators-face-possible-action-over-failure-to-discipline-lying-pip-assessors/

The link below is to an article from last February by the Disability News Service that more and more people are coming forward sharing their assessor lied in their assessment report about the info given at the assessment. It's a huge problem. I also listened to a radio 4 program where they interviewed people claiming the assessor lied.

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-lie-after-lie-after-lie/

This thread is absolutely heartbreaking, and my heart goes out to those of you struggling with this awful, cruel situation. Maybe not entirely relevant, but my DM aged 87 gets higher rate DLA and my DB, a retired mental health nurse, does all the forms with the kind of pinpoint accuracy and greater detail that others have recommended. Maybe charities like Age Concern or MIND could be helpful in some cases? (sorry if that a stupid idea)

I now have:

• GP appt in two weeks for a further letter (no real concerns about this, she supported my application)
• The 'nurse's' registration number for a complaint to the NMC and PSA.
• Sorted out getting a copy of my medical records since what I sent was ignored.

I've also been in touch with the company that supplied the interpreter to see if she will be prepared to write a brief statement which confirms I was upset (and corroborates the recording). Unsure about this one but she was a witness.

I've started my reconsideration in expectation of the decision.

I sound v. organised but I'm exhausted. I am angry that my resources are being spent on this when I need to focus on improving my mental health.

I am determined to impact my assessor's career even if that is only in the form of a complaint on her file. If she's done it to me there will be others, and hopefully there will be multiple complaints leading to some sort of action.

Thank you @Yolofish. It is indeed good advice to get lots of help in filling out the form so as to use the precise language needed to meet their criteria. However, even this isn't always failsafe. I have filled in my DLA forms for years, using charity guides and benefits and work website and I always got the correct award. However, when I transferred to PIP and again broke everything down in great detail on my form and referred to helpful guidelines by the charity for my illness as well as using benefit and work excellent guideline, I still didn't get the correct award initially.

A person from CAB came to my house whilst I was writing my appeal as I wanted someone to look it over. He was gobsmacked reading how I filled in my original claim form and how ill I was that I was so underscored.

@Godstopper, it's terrible how so many of us have to go to appeal when ill. It's so stressful and affects our health. My functioning deteriorated from starting the appeal process and it took me about 6 months to get back to my previous level of functioning after I finally got the correct award. I don't think I ever did get quite back to my previous level either.

fingers crossed for you blankets and god you bloody rock - you shouldnt have too, but your emotional strength shows through.

@Godstopper, I don't know whether people have already mentioned this, so forgive me if I am repeating myself, but I have read success rate at the mandatory reconsideration stage is low. I think I read about 10%, but haven't got exact figure to hand. I am just sharing this to prepare you that you might not get the right decision at MR, even with new medical evidence, and be prepared you may have to then go on to appeal. Obviously you may and I really hope you do get given the correct award at MR but just thought I would share.

Thank you @yolofish, they did eventually close my appeal and award me the correct award, but it was only given for 2 years and I have just had to fill in my renewal form and I am waiting to hear if they require me to do another face to face assessment. I am prepared they probably will. What joy

So I'm going through PIP for the 2nd time (because clearly I'm gonna be cured after 2 years 😑) the 1st time took a year through to tribunal which I won (6 points to 10).

So the reasons listed for not being disabled enough are:
I'm fat
I can use a mobile phone
I own a car
I didn't look tired (I had a bloody 3 month old I obviously would have looked tired disabled or not!!!)

My new assessment was just before Xmas and the dreaded Brown envelope dropped through the door today, unfortunately it was just a "we have all the info we need" letter.

Maybe I should sue for all the bloody stress they caused me last year!!! Or for the interest that built up on my credit card when I had no income....

I feel for you all that have been through the system. It's horrific the way this country treat their most vulnerable.

Here's hoping something changes soon!!

I'm not sure I would say that mine lied, it's more that she seemed to have written a report about a completely different person.

The DWP sent a rep to the tribunal who turned out to be very nice and helped me out quite a lot when the tribunal seemed to have misunderstood what I'd said or vice versa. I went from zero points to the enhanced rate for care, which was far more than I expected.

As far as I'm concerned, the tribunal was the fair assessment and everything before that was just a farce.

Hi Shouting,

I think I get why you can't face it again: I have a pretty strong support network and I'm still finding it the most mentally draining thing I've done in my life. If the report was truthful, I think I'd just leave it since it's not the reduction of the award that is the worst thing to me but the lies. I cannot fathom how a 'nurse', someone who is supposed to care about patients, can write down that I displayed no signs of anxiety etc when I burst into tears at one point - she can be heard reassuring me on tape!

You are so right that this has to be ran like a military campaign - something that many will be unable to do.

Someone in my FB group lost her PIP today because she had "brushed her hair" and was not "rocking" amongst other things. It's evil.

I know blankets. I think the rejection rate at MR is about 80% +, although that's just been changed following pressure from Frank Field's inquiry.

The only reason I'm putting a lot of effort into this is so that everything is there for tribunal: what I do now should save me time later.

I've just had to e-mail my implant centre for a letter saying that profound deafness does not "fluctuate." I've entered the fucking Twilight Zone.

Hey Jekyll,

My report says I didn't "look tired" either. What does this even mean? Are we supposed to be yawning? Falling asleep? It's bizarre.

I've read about driving being used against people before. Did they say something about this involving memory, co-ordination, and concentration? It's nonsense. Shows they will clutch at anything to try and justify not awarding points.