To think that my PIP assessor has deliberately told lies?

[Godstopper]

Previous thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3107566-AIBU-to-be-terrified-of-my-PIP-assessment

To update: I requested a copy of the assessor's report which arrived today. If the DWP decision maker follow this (as I expect they will), then I will lose £90 a month as I'll only receive standard care. I have a total of ten points: 2 for requiring an aid to bathe and 8 for communicating (deaf).

I recorded the assessment (with permission). The assessor can be heard on tape 3-5 times asking if I wanted to stop as I was visibly upset. She can also be heard offering me a tissue.

Here are some of the lies (I have no qualms about making this public - people need to see what is going on):

Cooking: "Reported restrictions that her partner will do most of the cooking. She feels that she is unsafe due to vertigo, reduced concentration, reduced motivation, requires supervision and prompting to be able to cook. Whilst acknowledging that she receives some cognitive behavioural therapy once a week for her mental health she appears well nourished. Therefore it would be clinically probable that she is able to carry out this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Managing Therapy: "Reports that she is taken to therapy once a week by her partner. Functional history however reports that she will go into therapy on her own. She did not appear withdrawn and did not require prompting. She attends the therapy sessions on her own. Therefore it is clinically probable that she is able to complete this activity independently in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner on the majority of days."

Engaging with People: Reports to have restrictions engaging with others. Functional history reports that she is able to engage with her partner. Informal observations - did not require prompting, did not appear anxious, able to engage adequately well at assessment, adequate eye contact and rapport was maintained at assessment. Whilst acknowledging that she has cognitive behavioural therapy she did not appear withdrawn or anxious. Therefore it is clinically probable that she can perform this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Mobility: "Reported restriction that she is unsafe due to her deafness and mental health problems. Will attend GP appointments on her own (THE SURGERY IS LITERALLY DOWN THE ROAD!). She did not appear withdrawn and did not need prompting. Therefore it is clinically probable that he (!!) could carry out this activity independently on the majority of days in a reliable, repeated, and safe manner."

And on it goes.

We are obviously off to appeal: it is now my mission to ensure that the cost of this dwarfs the £90 a month that they will save by awarding me a reduced rate. All lies are on tape. I am also going to do my best to impact her professionally by complaining to her registration body and taking it as far as I possibly can. A complaint about the quality of the report will also be made to ATOS.

Their response will determine if the recording makes it into the public domain. I am not afraid to name and shame either.

She couldn't lie about my deafness (I had an interpreter) but thought she could get me on my MH issues. This is what is happening to vulnerable people under reforms and it's disgusting.

They were just plain ignorant at my husband's appointment said there's nothing wrong with him ,he can use his right hand perfectly,the problem they were supposed to be assessing was his left, dominant hand which even minimal use causes intense pain

How can someone be a nurse and write stuff like this?

They get paid plenty for it is why. Because who needs a conscience?

When I had a PIP assessment they said I drop my DS off in the school car park.

Not sure what that had to do with anything and I'd have a bloody job anyway, one I dont drive and two, it's staff only.

They're deliberate idiots. The method to their madness is whilst thousands are doing MRs and Tribunals its money they're not having to pay them, and its only going to get worse for people with McVey back in charge.

I'm not sure I would say that mine lied, it's more that she seemed to have written a report about a completely different person.

That's still lying though. I understand what you mean. When I read my report. She had come to my home first thing in the morning. The report was written at nearly 9pm at night. I still think like you, that she had that many cases to do that day she got us all mixed up. It doesn't excuse it though, they need holding to account, they rely on people not having enough money to get legal advice or not knowing the system. A good idea would be to start with penalising the assessors when any decision to not award is overturned at tribunal. You'd notice a very quick turnaround of how many would suddenly become very conscientious and do their job properly.

@blankets4ever thank you for posting those links, I am gobsmacked that health professionals blatantly lie, write reports that a full of typos and inaccuracies, yet aren't held to account by their governing bodies!

Also godstopper raise a complaint with DWP about the evidence they ignored. It's becoming a common thing for contradictory evidence to not even be entertained unfortunately.

Last time they said I managed my meds perfectly well. We have the recording that has my son explaining how he comes round and sorts it all out for the week on a sunday (can't open the packets) and how he sets the alarm on my phone and then rings me each morning and runs through which to take.

Blankets that’s very interesting that the PSA are taking an interest. If just one nurse or health care professional had a case taken against them it would send a really strong message to other professionals doing this assessing. Deliberate or not inaccurate recording is a breach of standards.Also assessing when the condition is not something you know enough about would count as acting outside your sphere of competence is another breach. How well and detailed anyone fills in the complaint form to the NMC or HCPC could make a difference to how seriously they take the complaint. If they get a complaint they take seriously, they could order an audit of other reports to see if the complaint is a one off or a pattern of behaviour. The two main ways to go are alleging lack of professional competsnce and/ or misconduct. Some cases on here sound like both. The first and most importsn5 duty of a registered professional is putting the interests of the patient/ client first. If anyone wants help/advice with putting in a complaint PM me

@Godstopper, glad you are aware the MR success rate is low and I hear you by preparing it all now you will have all the information gathered if it goes ahead to appeal. Fluctuating profound deafness is beyond ridiculous.

Govt and the private health assessment companies, Atos and Capita, swear there are no targets but so many decisions seem utterly bizarre that I would be very unsurprised if there are hidden targets, even incentives for assessors to underscore. As the appeal process costs are supposed to cost more than denying many people the correct awards, it does seem an ideological choice.

I wonder if the long term aim is to to make applying for benefits so unpleasant and the rates become so low that people will switch to private insurance to cover being out of work, disability, sickness etc. Absolutely no good if you have had conditions all your life, before being able to start work or on a low income. It's not a future I want for this country.

@emmageddon, I know it's terrible.

@bourdic, very true.

My health was suffering too much from the energy required starting the the appeal process that I simply was too ill to also register a complaint about my assessor as well. However, I am very grateful to all who do.

@Godstopper - I do sympathize with your situation, but I have to say the amount of energy you have to simply 'bring down' the nurse who carried out your assessment is rather OTT. She made a clinical assessment, again one you disagree with, but 2 people are allowed to have different opinions.
The assessing nurse did not wake up and think, right I'll bring Godstopper down today - she simply went to work. She didn't treat you badly - in fact you said she spoke kindly to you and offered to stop, or asked if you needed a tissue etc. Why are you wasting time and energy on trying to destroy one woman's career? - and actually she hasn't done anything wrong except not type as perfectly as you would want her to......
Channel your energies into fighting the DWP IF you do not get the award you want - you don't have your award letter yet do you?

Another case from another forum I'm on today is a lady with one arm and one leg who has lost her mobility because she can "use walls to support herself." Someone else lost transferring from DLA as she had "brushed her hair" and was not "rocking." Well, after going through this process, I suspect many of us may well end up with unbrushed hair rocking in the corner with a large glass of wine (therefore continuing to look "well nourished").

I don’t agree boston - if there are two different clinical opinions/assessments one of them could be wrong and have been carried out in a professionally incompetent way.

Hi Boston,

I am under no delusions that I'll seriously affect her career. All I'm doing is writing a letter of complaint that won't take very long. Indeed, most of my energies now have to focus on dealing with the DWP.

I would say, though, that it goes beyond a difference of opinion as you cannot say that someone displayed no signs of anxiety if they were upset at the assessment. That has been used to claim I am not affected by my mental health issue in a number of areas. She has managed to override the opinion of my G.P and therapist in the space of one hour. Quite an impressive feat.

Acting outside sphere of competence then - breach of standards

@Godstopper maybe we should have painted black circles under our eyes.

Yea they said if I could concentrate o that I could clearly do everything else. And that and phone was used to say I have adequate dexterity in my hands...

It's a joke. I made it clear at this assessment that my car was specially picked for its ease of use (no handbrake and super light handling)

When I called the DWP out about ignoring evidence last time a guy called me back and basically said you could literally write nothing and provide next to no evidence and it would be the same outcome as reems of details and gp accounts etc because all that matters it the 1 person who doesn't know you or your condition.

Well if all is above board then the OPs letter of complaint won't affect the assessors career will it? After all, she only made a clinical assessment...

If she has done nothing wrong, she has nothing to worry about.

So how are cases like this 'a difference of opinion' then Boston?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disabled-woman-told-shell-lose-7092414

This thread has made me sad and angry.
My partner is a PIP assessor and it is the hardest job he has ever done. The standards he has to work to are incredibly high and he has immense pressure on him from above.
He does his damndest to be fair and equitable for his claimants and is often thanked for his kindness and understanding.

Very helpful and useful link from an ex PIP assessor who I believe is still around Mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP

Hi Debka,

I do believe there are good assessors out there. I just ran into one who acted unethically. What is this "pressure from above?" Is this to reduce awards even if there are no explicit targets?

Ive just read the statement from the HCPC and it’s disingenuous to say the least. The spokesman focuse on professional performance - if a report is ‘misleading’ it might actually reach the threshold for dishonesty which is misconduct and very serious as it strikes at the integrity of the HCP. Being dishonest is often much worse than being incompetent

But it’s irrelevant how many good assessors there are- it doesn’t mean that you therefore don’t deal with the poor ones does it? That really is a poor argument

I've no doubt there is good assessors out there. However they are often few and far between.

Claimants experiences of poor assessors shouldn't be disregarded just because there's a few good ones dotted around.