To think that my PIP assessor has deliberately told lies?

[Godstopper]

Previous thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3107566-AIBU-to-be-terrified-of-my-PIP-assessment

To update: I requested a copy of the assessor's report which arrived today. If the DWP decision maker follow this (as I expect they will), then I will lose £90 a month as I'll only receive standard care. I have a total of ten points: 2 for requiring an aid to bathe and 8 for communicating (deaf).

I recorded the assessment (with permission). The assessor can be heard on tape 3-5 times asking if I wanted to stop as I was visibly upset. She can also be heard offering me a tissue.

Here are some of the lies (I have no qualms about making this public - people need to see what is going on):

Cooking: "Reported restrictions that her partner will do most of the cooking. She feels that she is unsafe due to vertigo, reduced concentration, reduced motivation, requires supervision and prompting to be able to cook. Whilst acknowledging that she receives some cognitive behavioural therapy once a week for her mental health she appears well nourished. Therefore it would be clinically probable that she is able to carry out this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Managing Therapy: "Reports that she is taken to therapy once a week by her partner. Functional history however reports that she will go into therapy on her own. She did not appear withdrawn and did not require prompting. She attends the therapy sessions on her own. Therefore it is clinically probable that she is able to complete this activity independently in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner on the majority of days."

Engaging with People: Reports to have restrictions engaging with others. Functional history reports that she is able to engage with her partner. Informal observations - did not require prompting, did not appear anxious, able to engage adequately well at assessment, adequate eye contact and rapport was maintained at assessment. Whilst acknowledging that she has cognitive behavioural therapy she did not appear withdrawn or anxious. Therefore it is clinically probable that she can perform this task independently on the majority of days in a repeated, reliable, and safe manner."

Mobility: "Reported restriction that she is unsafe due to her deafness and mental health problems. Will attend GP appointments on her own (THE SURGERY IS LITERALLY DOWN THE ROAD!). She did not appear withdrawn and did not need prompting. Therefore it is clinically probable that he (!!) could carry out this activity independently on the majority of days in a reliable, repeated, and safe manner."

And on it goes.

We are obviously off to appeal: it is now my mission to ensure that the cost of this dwarfs the £90 a month that they will save by awarding me a reduced rate. All lies are on tape. I am also going to do my best to impact her professionally by complaining to her registration body and taking it as far as I possibly can. A complaint about the quality of the report will also be made to ATOS.

Their response will determine if the recording makes it into the public domain. I am not afraid to name and shame either.

She couldn't lie about my deafness (I had an interpreter) but thought she could get me on my MH issues. This is what is happening to vulnerable people under reforms and it's disgusting.

One thing I repeatedly challenged was the assessor claiming that the client did not have any delusions. I asked them to give evidence for how they arrived at this conclusion.
The whole fucking point about a delusion is that the person 100% believes it to be true.
Nobody is going to answer ‘yes’ when asked if they have any delusional beliefs.
I have known many clients who can appear completely rational if they are being asked questions about what time they get up in the morning or whether they can make themselves a snack.
It’s only if you know them and know what to ask and you will unleash a torrent of florid psychosis.
I don’t think they include references to delusions any more in their ridiculous reports- I would like to think I had a hand in that.

MissHoolies, I have long known you were one of the angels.

I'm quite sure your work had an effect far beyond the individual cases. And it's inspiring me to keep going. I am awaiting an appeal.

Fortunately these days I'm no longer taken in by handshakes or superficial smiles (all the better to eat me with). So I'm suffering less pain and shock at their dishonesty than when I tried to trust them.

A friend of mine almost took up the job of an assessor. She completed the ‘training’, part of which was observing other professionals completing the assessments and the paperwork afterwards. My friend has morals, she did not take the job.

It is nice to know that your application was successful, despite the ‘professional’ assessment.

It is obviously difficult to make a complaint when there has been a somewhat satisfactory outcome. But kudos to you, whatever you decide with regards to the complaint.

Im pleased to see your update is good news and you had a decent decision maker.

Perking

Fabulous news Godstopper.

I didn't see this case reported in December, so for anyone who missed it,
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/3121908-Court-orders-Atos-to-pay-disabled-woman-5-000-over-dishonest-PIP-assessment

Great news @Godstopper. Good luck if you do decide to still go ahead and complain about the assessor.

I had an esa assessment several years ago where the assessor lied in the assessment.

That's great news OP. So glad to see your update

The fact is though that the assessor badly let you down and contributed to your anxiety by lying. It just sucks.

OMG, I'd completely missed that court case and the thread. Thank you for linking, ObscuredByFog.

I'm going to sit down and work through all that, and see if I can use it. It's really important that those of us with evidence keep up the pressure.

Thanks all.

Does anyone know if the complaints process is independent of them looking at your award? I really cannot face having it looked at and them possibly changing it if I complain.

I still can't decide if my assessor is ignorant or malicious. Possibly some combination thereof.

Was looking at 'disability analyst' jobs and they all mention "performance related pay" which says it all. For example:

www.nurses.co.uk/jobs/nursing/661368/pip-health--and--disability-analyst---wakefield-in-wakefield-west-yorkshire-sjb-medical-ltd/?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Nurses

Excuse me for being slightly suspicious about that: either the performance related pay is given due to how much they can save (i.e. remove awards) or how many assessments they manage (and that's still an issue as the rush to complete so many is naturally going to lead to omissions and lower quality reports).

Beyond me how someone with any sense of what is right can take the job ...

I don't know about the complaints procedure and whether it would affect what you've been awarded, sorry.

In our case I'm sure the assessor just did not know anything about some of my relative's conditions and therefore made wildly erroneous assumptions about their capabilities which DWP have seized on as "The Truth" and which is why we are going to Tribunal. In other respects, she observed more of one of the physical things than I did and commented on how pronounced it was.

I have a bee in my bonnet about lots of parts of the physical assessment, e.g. being able on that day for a matter of seconds to touch the occipital bone with the fingertips of both hands does no way on earth mean you are capable of washing your own hair, nor does it indicate permanent full movement of arms, hands, shoulders etc.

The only thing I would do differently is to absolutely insist on a recording.

More latest news first on the psychological distress part of mobility.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3704-pip-mobility-and-psychological-distress-update?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits%20and%20Work&utm_content=V1+January+17+2018+newsletter

Secondly, there's possible good news about recording the ATOS interviews.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3706-atos-would-fully-support-the-recording-of-pip-assessments?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits%20and%20Work&utm_content=V1+January+17+2018+newsletter

If you make a complaint to ATOS, that would be dealt with by ATOS.

However, when I complained before the DWP decision, ATOS withdrew their own report, and the DWP did not bother sending me for another assessment or making a decision for over a year. Leaving me in financial limbo. I think I threatened to complain to my MP in the end.

Now that you have a decision, I would be concerned that if you complained to ATOS it might cause them to withdraw their report, and the DWP might use this as a reason to throw out their decision (even though it disagreed with the report!). Leaving you back at square 1 with no money coming in until you've gone through the process again.

All rather unpredictable.

"Performance-related pay" for assessors?

My goodness I'd love to see what the performance indicators are for that...

Oh sorry, Godstopper, I've just realised it sounded like I was pushing you to do something, when I said those of us with evidence should keep up the pressure.

I was talking about myself. My situation is different from yours - they've forced me to go to tribunal so I have nothing to lose anyway.

If you decide not to risk a complaint, that's completely understandable. And you have your mental health to consider as well as the financial risk.

My sister and I have just done her mandatory reconciliation letter for PIP DWP.
The nurse evidence was full of lies and ignored much that was written evidenced by professionals and our verbal words. The nurse picked out anything to the detriment of my sister.
We are putting in a complaint to the NMC which is the best place to complain .
We will not be sending it anywhere else as the NMC do that as part of the investigation.
We are not sending it though until my sister has her answer regarding the mandatory reconciliation as we have been advised.
The DAY my sister has her result regardless if it is in my sister favour or not the Nurse complaint is bring posted.
Either way the nurse has broken her code of conduct
Basically my sister wanted a fair and honest report.
The nurse gave her an unfair and dishonest report.
I shall post how it goes.
My sister and I are retired nurses and know how some work areas places can cover up bad work practice so the best way to report a nurse is the NMC.
It is never too late to complain.
If you need to the paperwork to do this is online which you can print and post and is quite simple to fill out .

Regardless of the outcome . Wait for your outcome first then post to the NMC your complaints regarding the nurse. It is the only way forward.
Nurses need to keep within their code of conduct.
A nurse is a nurse regardless of whatever title the PIP DWP give them.
When my sister mandatory reconciliation decision comes back is the day the nurse complaint goes in.
It is written and ready to go.

Performance related pay.
I know nurses should always work in the best interest of the patient/client whatever title is used the nurse must be best interest.
With performance related pay this can sway the nurse to think of herself first.
This then becomes detrimental to the patient/client.
This PIP nurse is giving nurses a bad.
My sister and I as retired nurse with 50 years service between us have never needed to complain about a nurse to the NMC until now.

When I was asked to go for an assessment the nurse was very off handed and the report that followed was full of lies
I have no use of my right arm I cannot even hold a kettle or cup,I need help to bathe and wash my hair and have cronic bladder issues which result in me sometimes having major leakage at no notice.
Fibromyalja in all joints and use a crutch with my left arm for support as I cannot walk steadily.
When the report came back even though I was granted the PIP claim the report which listed the points scored was full of mistakes,she said I had use of my right arm and used it to walk with my crutch when the crutch was used in my left arm and that I managed to sign the form easily with my right arm.well I could but had to stand up to do it as I couldn't lift my arm to the desk,I lost the use of my arm after an accident which was not repaired by specialist as he said it would make no improvement to my arm usage.
My PIP is dated to finish in August 2019 when I have to apply again so what happens then do they send me another form to fill in and then do I have to wait another 3/4 mths for an outcome at 68yrs old I could do without this,the PIP goes towards my homehelp and laundry

and to give my daughter some respite during the week as she used to be calling in every day to help me.

Hi there, my mum has just received her decision letter, and has lost the mobility part and will now get standard for daily living. A family member went with my mum. I showed her the report and she nearly died. The assessor had said there was a couch in the room that my refused to get out of wheelchair and walker over to it. There was no couch in the room, she states my mum did not seem agitated, anxious or in a distressed state, but she had to give my mum the box of tissues as she was uncontrollably sobbing. In my mums report from her GP it states she can ealk more than 1 meter but less that 20 meters. The assessor said “I decided you can walk more than 50 meters but less than 200, but how when my mother never once left her wheelchair. The list of lies go on and on and on. But how do they think they can get away with lying and why would they do that to someone? My mum has been in receipt of DLA enhanced for both but now, reading this report you would believe it to be the same person. I know it’s changed now it’s pip but come on, u only have to look at my mother and read her medical file to see she is not a well lady x

The bastards have just written a completely inaccurate report about my sister. Thank fuck I was there, but the assessor just completely minimised everything my sister told her. Didn't help that my sister was laughing nervously and over-explaining things through nervousness, they perceived that as having no mental illness and showing no cognitive impairment.

I've just written a 4 page letter pointing out all the inaccuracies. Thing is is that had I not been there, and absolutely outraged on my sister's behalf, I know my sister wouldn't have the capacity or resilience to fight it. Fuckers. The woman seemed really friendly too, and I think it was to lull my sister into a false sense of security. Double fucker