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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Have I been mean to this child?

435 replies

SureJan · 07/01/2018 19:52

My baby DS is 6mo. My cousin came round to visit with her 4yo DD.
Baby has some toys, obviously nothing really for a 4yo to play with but I didn't mind at all her playing with the baby toys.
4yo started getting a little bit naughty (probably bored) & was snatching toys off the baby. Cousin, her mum, didn't say anything to her about it. Eventually I gently told her not to snatch, he's only a baby etc. Cousin not phased, didn't say a word to her. She didn't stop doing it so I started wrapping up the play date, picked up baby & said he was due a bottle, that sort of thing, to signal it was time they went home.
4yo started making a fuss when cousin said it was time to go & she was flustered. 4yo had baby's rattle in her hand & looked like she wasn't going to put it back. I nicely asked are you going to put the rattle back? They both ignored me. Cousin started saying bye, thanks for having us, 4yo still had hold of rattle. I said (nicely again) I'll take that rattle off you now, & she started kicking off really bad, screaming, crying etc. Cousin said nothing to me, just looked at her DD & looked blankly at me. I tried to tell 4yo it was baby's & baby needs it so it has to stay here - more screaming & crying, still no input from cousin. Then cousin says to 4yo, maybe SureJan will let you borrow it until we come again? I said sorry, no. Cousin rolled her eyes at me & said 'really?' in a very pissed off tone, & I stuck to my guns & said yes really, it's not hers to take!
Cousin cajoled & begged 4yo for a good minute or 2 to hand it over, with her screaming full pelt in her face, & eventually cousin snatched it off her, threw it onto the floor & dragged her out of the house saying 'thanks for fucking nothing' to me!
WIBU? Part of me feels bad because it was just a rattle & baby probably wouldn't have missed it, maybe I was being a bit mean? I'm sure cousin thinks I was just being awkward & making her suffer through an embarrassing tantrum that I could have easily stopped by letting her take the bloody thing.
But part of me thinks no, it's not my fault she won't discipline her DD & why should I just give her stuff to take home so that she gets an easier time? It was a rattle & she's 4yo so not age appropriate for her, I feel she was just pushing boundaries & didn't really want it.
I know it isn't my place to tell cousin how to discipline but I do feel she should have stepped in way before the rattle incident by telling her DD to stop snatching, play nicely, be gentle with baby etc. It annoyed me that she didn't!
Am I mean/unreasonable? I have no doubt that there will come a time when baby is older & tantrumming in similar fashion & I'll be able to empathise more, but I don't think in that situation I'd let him take the toy to keep him quiet.

OP posts:
Bellejessleo · 08/01/2018 23:50

I think from the beginning of the op’s post it was obvious she was judging her cousin from the offset. It is just very easy as a parent of ONE baby to turn around and say ‘I would never do that’ and judge other mothers, but until you’ve walked in the other mothers shoes you will never know if this is the umpteenth time the child has tantrumed that day and she just wanted a quiet coffee without being constantly toothpicked on her parenting skills.

NewYearNiki · 08/01/2018 23:58

She just wanted a quiet coffee whilst inflicting her brat on everyone else.

Must everything revolve around them.

BenLui · 09/01/2018 00:04

Giving into tantrums leads to more tantrums.

Everyone’s children behave badly occasionally giving into tantrums make that worse not better.

I know 12 year olds who still tantrum, because their parents give in.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 09/01/2018 00:09

So she should be allowed to have a quiet coffee and completely ignore the fact that her child is upsetting a baby. Sorry but if she wanted to opt out she should have stayed home.
The op probably is judging as most people would be if an older child was tormenting their baby while the parent sat back and did nothing.

NewYearNiki · 09/01/2018 00:25

Giving into tantrums leads to more tantrums.

I can vouch for that being true. My sister gives into my nephew so often that he now starts with the whining and crying whenever he wants something. Its constant all day.

emmyrose2000 · 09/01/2018 04:32

I know very little about 4yo's & I assumed she was just behaving like a typical 4yo

This is/was not typical four year old behaviour. However, some of the comments on here do explain some of the vile behaviour I have occasionally witnessed from children of all ages in public. Thankfully that's in the minority, as most parents do seem to realise that bringing up a child means you have to be the "bad guy" in your child's' eyes occasionally by disciplining them.

In my own orbit, I only know/knew one four year old who consistently acted like this. Not surprisingly, his mother was a pathetic excuse for a "parent" like your cousin too. Her refusal to discipline him, and her expectation that other people would give into him too, (I never, ever, did) made him a thoroughly unlikable person, who has no friends years later. No one likes him and no one likes her. I see a similar road ahead for your cousin and her child.

she new four year old would kick off that's why she kept quiet
Zero excuse. That's the very reason she needs wake up, take a parenting course, and act like a parent. If the child starts carrying on, you remove them from the situation/take them home. Simple. Don't just sit there like a stuffed cabbage and let the child tantrum because you're too lazy and ineffectual to do anything.

mathanxiety · 09/01/2018 04:39

If you have a child who has had several tantrums on a particular day, or even in a particular week, you should stay home and the child could have some quiet time, some solitary sensory play, or a nap. Going out somewhere and exposing the child to more stimulation than he or she can handle is the last thing you should consider.

mathanxiety · 09/01/2018 04:51

Mishappening - need a like button for your posts.

However, the superego can benefit from a little moulding.

MaximaDeWit · 09/01/2018 05:02
  • You did this over a rattle? I find that amazing. One of the biggest lessons in parenting is learning which battles to fight, and not to sweat the small stuff.*

One of the other biggest lessons in parenting is being consistent and not letting something slide once and expecting your child to understand that it won't slide another time.

I use the "choose your battles" thing daily but it's surely about which behaviour you choose to pull up, not when you can or can't be arsed to be a parent.

FrancisCrawford · 09/01/2018 05:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsNiceItsDifferentItsUnusual · 09/01/2018 05:58

Really shocked at some of these replies.

If the 4yo had played nicely with the baby's toys but seemed particularly attached to a rattle and wanted to borrow it...Yes love, knock yourself out.

4yo snatches toys from my baby then randomly wants to take home one of its rattles...No, not happening. I wouldn't watch someone treat my baby like that and then reward them, 4yo or not.

I have a 4yo and spend too much time socialising with them, so I'm not plucking these responses out of the air.

Of course, realistically this is not the 4yo's fault. The parent allowed all this, and, judging by the expletive filled exit, is hardly a paragon of parenting.

And it's not 'evil' to not allow someone to take something that isn't theirs. Child or not.

LadyBunnysWig · 09/01/2018 06:07

*One of the other biggest lessons in parenting is being consistent and not letting something slide once and expecting your child to understand that it won't slide another time.

I use the "choose your battles" thing daily but it's surely about which behaviour you choose to pull up, not when you can or can't be arsed to be a parent.*

Yes!

DuchessofLondon · 09/01/2018 06:08

YNBU.

She's just offended someone told her DC no. Whilst she is free to parent how she wants you do not have to tolerate the behaviour too. Yes it was only a rattle but it wasn't the childs rattle to take. Cut the playdates. If she can't handle you telling the kid "actually no I will have that back now" how is she going to cope when they start full time school?

Giving in for an easy life is where it all starts, best to nip it in the bud before it escalates.

Original poster
SureJan · 09/01/2018 07:42

I've acknowledged I could have handled the situation better, or been a bit more understanding towards cousin, but I don't think I was evil! Grin
Maybe cousin was having a bad day, maybe 4yo was bored - the fact of the matter is, I didn't want 4yo to snatch off baby & make him cry, so I gently put a stop to it (when it became clear cousin wasn't going to). I didn't want 4yo to help herself to our stuff (however pathetic the rattle is deemed) without her mum at least acknowledging that 'no, we don't do that at other people's houses, DD', so I nicely asked for it back.
It's up to cousin how she parents her DD, but I don't have to silently put up with it when they're round at mine.
And yes I'm sure I'll 'know about it' when baby is older & throwing tantrums left, right & centre - I think I'll look back on this & remember what NOT to do.

OP posts:
Oldbird69 · 09/01/2018 08:00

We had friends with a DS the same age as our's who would never share his toys, but would always want to take one of our son's toys home with him when they came to visit. He was a nightmare, & our DS got fed up of his tantrums so we stopped them visiting. They were 8 or 9 at the time, & his parents were very like your cousin. They don't grow out of this behaviour, they need to be taught what is acceptable and what isn't.

DuchessofLondon · 09/01/2018 08:08

Seriously OP. Don't sweat it.

DCs had friends like this. Operative word being 'had'. Their Mum was woefully bad at the actual parenting aspect of well, being a parent.

Spikeyball · 09/01/2018 08:20

If a child is still doing this having been at school for a few years I would consider whether there is something going on that you don't know about. Typically developing children usually moderate their behaviour because they don't want to get into trouble and want to fit in and other children to like them.

Lethaldrizzle · 09/01/2018 08:48

There's some real self satisfied parents on here. I've raised kids to adult hood, very successfully I might add and I would have given the kid the freaking rattle. All this baloney about never giving into tantrums and consistency, The kid was 4! You think you have the answers, so absolutely sure your way of parenting is right. That in itself is a problem. No-one is perfect, no-one has all the right answers and we all make mistakes.

DuchessofLondon · 09/01/2018 09:06

At 4 they are often have already been in nursery / social settings for quite some time.

Do I think my parenting is perfect? No. I make mistakes sometimes just like we all do.

Would I have given the child the rattle 'because they're only 4'? Absolutely not.

LightTripper · 09/01/2018 09:23

I have a 3.5 year old and if she had done this I would have seen it as a nice safe environment to teach her about not snatching, other people existing/having stuff, etc which are all tricky concepts. They only learn by not getting their own way all the time! If they were trying to get off a bus or running to catch a train or something else time critical I might have given in, but in a lovely safe environment with no time pressure... Perfect teaching environment!

And even if she disagreed with you on that she was VU to swear at you, obviously.

emmyrose2000 · 09/01/2018 09:59

OP, you're being way too hard on yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. Cousin, on the other hand......

Cousin literally sat by and allowed her child to make a baby cry. This was way before you even got to the rattle part. Not reigning your child in when they are upsetting and/or making another child cry (let alone a baby), is the perfect definition of shit parenting.

Even without the rattle incident, Cousin was/is rude and is failing her child by allowing her to get away with this sort of behaviour. She also failed to think of her child when she didn't provide for her needs by bringing something to keep her occupied whilst they were out.

As for her "goodbye" - my mind is boggling at that one. Besides being just plain rude, she set (yet another) poor example for her child.

4yo started getting a little bit naughty (probably bored) & was snatching toys off the baby. Cousin, her mum, didn't say anything to her about it

DD & looked blankly at me. I tried to tell 4yo it was baby's & baby needs it so it has to stay here - more screaming & crying, still no input from cousin.

Cousin rolled her eyes at me & said 'really?' in a very pissed off tone

Eventually cousin snatched it off her, threw it onto the floor & dragged her out of the house saying 'thanks for fucking nothing' to me!

NewYearNiki · 09/01/2018 10:07

This thread has reminded me that my nephews help themsleves to my stuff in my home.

Old childhood toys. Mementos and ornaments from travelling. They just take while my sister sits and watches it.

My sister and my parents also say oh go.on just let them have it. They say this infront of the child as the Ops cousin does. What this does is teach the child that they can actually take what they want and you are the bad guy for saying no.

I dont invite them anymore.

Whinealot · 09/01/2018 10:14

The kerfuffle was only caused by the lack of discipline in the first place. Enabling it is not doing anything other than keeping the peace with the mother.

This sort of thing really boils my piss/gets my goat/insert any other similar phrase.

Confrontayshunme · 09/01/2018 10:16

I have encountered this from kids of all ages. Leaving someone's house when you are having fun (whether you steal a toy or not) is hard between 3 and 6. Several of my DD's friends in Reception/Year 1 try to take toys when they leave. It's fairly normal as they don't often realise that things belong to anyone but them.

So I have a tiny jar with balloons, leftover party toys and small lollies. When they have their shoes/coat on or have given back all possessions, they get to choose something on their way out the door. I haven't had a leaving tantrum from anyone in over a year!

Whinealot · 09/01/2018 10:24

The child is just 4...cousin could probably have dealt better with situation, but you sound evil! Just wait until it’s you in four years time with your pfb...hope cousin remembers your ‘understanding’

But the thing is that this situation will probably not develop or if it does it will finish quickly because the ops PFB will be used to understanding the word No. But of course this won't be attributed to good parenting, it will be put down to luck by the cousin.