To cut off MIL for stealing?

[Beingthere]

Mil the gatekeeper has always asked family members to give gifts to her to send or give to us. I found this odd. There is no reason for it other than control but she rules the family and everyone did as they were told.

In the past this has meant she has held our presents hostage from everyone, using them as bait to go and see her. We’ve never given in to this, getting Christmas gifts in June once. We’ve asked people not to do it, and we send any gifts directly to the recipients not through MIL, but they still do. Oh well, up to them.

We have just found out that this year MIL opened a gift (I’ve suspected this in the past) took out one of the presents for DS, kept it, and rewrapped the parcel. We know this because the sender asked us if we liked it but we hadn’t received it. (I’d written a thank you note and didn’t mention it, so they rang.) DH spoke to his M and she admittted to taking the gift and keeping it herself because “it wasn’t suitable for DS”.

I’M FURIOUS!

MIL has form for lying and being passive aggressive. She speaks badly about the spouses of all her adult children in front of their children so I was always worried about DS being around her when he’s older and understands. So this is the final straw. DH is on board, he’s disgusted with her. Especially as when he told her that her behaviour was unacceptable, she said she was going to ring around th3 family and tell them not to speak to,us anymore! She has form for this also. We never took any notice when she ordered us to not send a birthday card to Auntie May or whoever, but DH’s siblings do.

So DH has told her not to contact us either.

Sorry about any mistakes. Angry and on mobile,

Good grief!!! Gob smacking behaviour. Such lies. Do you think the nice relative actually believed it or was she just accepting it for a quiet life?

CoraPirbright Maybe she knows really, how could she not, but doesn't want to talk bad about MIL to us.

Just realised that only DH and I know about MIL saying the thing about it not being suitable (maybe FIL if he was in the room her end) so she can say what she likes to everyone and they have no reason not to believe her. I don't think DH said that to the sender when he spoke to her, just that MIL had it and he'd asked her to send it. Obviously damage limitation has been going on behind the scenes.

This is how CF and toxic narcissists get away with things.

No independent witness heard the phonecall and people want to believe the 'best', as to do otherwise would cause a lot of fuss and trouble.

Far better to accept (rather than believe) the given story and keep the peace, rather than confront the offender and watch whatever histrionic tactics they use to alienate the confronter and face a multi-pronged attack from others who takes their side.

Send your presents directly to the people you intend them for and encourage everyone else to send them to you.

"After all the trouble and 'confusion' last year."

Gingernaut I don't know if there will be a next year. The ball is in everyone's court but only FIL and BIL have contacted us, one with a threat and one with emotional blackmail. Perhaps everyone believes MIL and we are now the black sheep.

Will you miss her though?? Enjoy the peace, once dh has accepted what she really is he will be fine. My dh went nc with his dps. In a short time actually he said he had never been so content with his lot - they had been continuing to abuse him in a low level way. Your dh will feel he has down his duty to protect his ds +dw from such a venomous woman - regardless of her position.

Try not to worry about it or talk about it from now on. Enjoy the cross stitch gift and do not let the kerfuffle regarding it, affect how you feel about it. You already said that there was no interaction between Dh and his siblings anyway, unless through Mil. I would forget it all now, still send your Christmas presents next year to the family and see what happens. You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family. Unfortunately!!!!

For some reason your MIL has a strange hold over your DH family, she is a thief, no hiding from that fact, the present was in your box, wrapped with other presents for your DS, time to step back from them & let them get on with it

In any sort of situation involving toxic grandparents, I always want to say the following:

No child needs grandparents.

There are all sorts of degrees of grandparent relationships. Kids who stay with their grandparents daily or weekly. Doting but distant grandparents who shower with presents but don't do day to day stuff. 'Fake' grandparents and aunts, of close family friends who love the kid anyway.

But no child needs grandparents. Of course it is fantastic that a child has as many LOVING, POSITIVE AND SECURE adult relationships as possible, and that their parents have support, but that doesn't have to be biological grandparents. I had very different relationships with my maternal, paternal and 'fake' grandparents, and I didn't think any of them were better or worse.

So my advice OP is don't listen to anyone who tells you that your child needs their grandparents or that you're denying a relationship.

Well said, Thecats!

Totally agree the cats. I had no grandparents growing up but had an aunt who was like a second mother to us. I never once felt that we missed out on anything.

I would add that it's only ever parents in my experience who 'feel' the grandparent's absence. The idea that kids go to school jealous of their classmates having grandparent relationships/getting presents etc is entirely projection.

As long as a child's life is filled with loving people and experiences (and, to be honest, presents!), they don't sweat the specifics.

Oh OP - it does look as thouogh you and DH are now the 'black sheep' ; either because they have been lied to, or because they will never stand up to MIL. And that is what toxic narcissists do - alienate, lie, manipulate, threaten.. they are never wrong, and will never back down.

The only options now are to kow-tow (apologise, beg, prostrate oneself before her ) or to go NC. There is no in-between - she will never allow it.

She has to be the Queen bee, cannot allow anyone to argue to stand against her, and even if you do go NC be prepared for the rest of the family to cut you off too.

You do have some power - you have a/her grandchild. For any normal GM, that is a big bargaining chip. But she has already shown how much she thinks of that (by stealing from him) and even so your child is just another person in her 'cast' to manipulate and use for her own purposes. Don't allow that!

Seriously, if DH wants to cut her out, I'd do it.

It is true, we can all adopt grandparents if our own are missing or inadequate. DD did that very thing and had a fantastic extra gm and gd for nearly 10 years. They had as much influence over her as anyone in her life, and having them, even for such a short time, made her more secure.

Your in laws are no loss to you when they behave like this.
Be happy xx

Thank you everyone.

The lack of grandparents doesn't bother me. I came to terms with that when pregnant because MIL started laying the law down even then about baby names and visits and I realised how much FIL swore and talked about stuff not suitable in front of children (nothing like a pregnancy to focus your mind on bad language and racism!) so I decided to keep my distance.

As I mentioned somewhere, MIL has form for 'parental alienation' and although we had decided DS would never be alone with her she is the type who would say something in front of a child to try and force the parents hand over an issue. I would never put my son in that position.

Unfortunately it looks like it won't just be grandparents DS will be lacking. I think MIL will take the entire family with her.

Well, at least we know where we stand.

I can't sleep. I keep thinking about all the things that have happened over the years that I was confused about. There was so much misinformation going around about our wedding, I thought I was going mad at one point. Now I think it was MIL confusing things to try and control everything.

It is very unsettling when you realise that it really wasn't you going crazy and that you genuinely doubted your own mind. I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of Gaslighting, I have included a link which will explain it.

I think the hardest thing to come to terms with is that anyone would behave that way, especially to their own children. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my dad had this with his mother and did eventually cut contact when I was about three.

Until you've experienced it, it sounds paranoid or unbalanced to the uninitiated. You have had a big shock recently and had to make decisions to protect your family. You and DH will need time to 'come down' from these years of mental abuse. Be kind to yourselves and if necessary seek some counselling.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting-in-relationships

Sad that no one visits her often.
Sounds like you have a reason.
My MIL didn't come to our wedding and didn't allow anyone from DH's side to come. She is an awful person and I wouldn't see her. A Grandparents should never steal from their grandchild. It's sad if her kids have put her in an unfortunate situation. Kids should look after their parents

OP - you are lucky; you've never known this sort of behaviour from someone. You have grown up normal, with normal people around you, who would never behave like this. It is unbelieveable, unreal, and 'normal' people question themselves, go along 'for a quiet life', get sucked in slowly....it's insidious. And incredibly hurtful to 'normal' people, who cannot think like MIL does.

For those who grew up with this as their normal, it is hard to realise how ABnormal someone like MIL is. It seems as if your DH is aware of her, and how toxic she is.

Protect your dc from her. The wider family will probably fall into line with MIL - their loss.

As I said upthread - I am NC with my father and sister. I live 200 miles away from them and my dc have never felt their loss. They have friends, and other family, people who love them, rather than 'family' who would use them.

Thank you.

Weezol Every point in your link is valid. I could give an example, several, of each point. But I won't bore you!

TakeitEasy23 We don't visit her often, DH never wanted to as he does not get on with her family and we live a long way away. Her other children are at her house every day.

ptumbi My family aren't perfect but at least their failings are up front. They get angry and sulky sometimes but wouldn't try to manipulate people.

DH is aware of MIL but I don't know if he knows how damaging her behaviour is. He coped by keeping his distance and not taking any notice of her. When she said we had to call the baby X, he just ignored her. I worried about that more then him, I knew she would get annoyed and so she did, she came back to me with all the spiteful things the family had said about my baby's name. But I don't think they did say those things now, I think MIL made it up.

I’m so sorry, I can feel the sadness in your posts

It might sound daft, and this is what I’ve found and it might not apply to you, but you could benefit from letting yourself go through the grieving process. When I realised that I would never have the relationship I prayed for with my ILs I went through similar stages; the disbelief, the bargaining (with myself mainly- if I try X then Y could happen), anger, resentment. Finally some sort of acceptance.

It sounds like you’re just realising what shits they all are and that you’ll never have the relationship with them that you want.

Give yourself time

When she said we had to call the baby X, he just ignored her. good for him. That's exactly what I would do.
And you are right to question everything that comes out of her mouth now - she will have absolutely no compunction in telling you stuff to make herself look right/good/on top.

Sad, but people like this (and her enablers - FIL, BILs, SILs) only see you, her own son, her own grandchildren - as people she can manipulate and use to make herself look good. The cross-stitch is a tiny part of that (but a big part in the tipping-point!) in that she probably thought 'oh that's beautiful, I can use it to show people how much I love my GC (thinking she could pass it off as being 'done by herself', or that the giver thought SO much of MIL that she made it for her, or whatever)

I hope you can have a peaceful life well away from her - but be prepared for flying monkeys, ways for relatives to let you know how 'ill', or 'sad' or 'desperate to see her GC she is', how 'mean and cruel' you are to keep her GC from her... And there is not much you can say to these people, who may be, like you, 'normal', and unable/unwilling to see her for what she is.

It may be turbulent for a while for you. Be strong.

ohfourfoxache The hardest thing for me right now is that DH doesn't want to talk about it and I need to!

ptumbi I never understood, still don't, how DH could just ignore her because here was usually a price to pay. I take things to heart more then him though.

I think this is a big life lesson though, not just with MIL but with everything.

Oh God I can relate to that

I think that one of the biggest problems for me is that dh seems to think that such behaviour is normal, so sees no point discussing anything. It also royally fucks him off talking to mil and he can’t bear the irritation of even thinking about her. As it is he very grudgingly calls her once a week.

But it’s really shit when you just want to talk about all the ins and outs and you need to vent but they just don’t want to.

Have you got anyone to talk to in RL, perhaps someone who knows about them?