To refuse to stop receiving maintenance

[Carbohol78]

I earn more than my Ex; and my DH earns more than me. However I just wondered if, in my shoes, you’d ever refuse to receive or refuse to pay CM (if you had the option to refuse to pay)

My DH and I both have majority care, my Ex earns slightly less than me and he pays me £600pcm under duress through CMS for 2 children. He does moan he cannot afford it, although on his wage I am not sure I believe him, he has ok cars and has just done a lot of work on his house (had to extend mortgage tbf)

I don’t believe the children do without at his house (he has them 2 nights pw), but he claims he cannot afford for them to do swimming at £7 per week

Even though we also have majority custody of my SC, we pay their mum maintenance as she is genuinely shorter on money and we buy all school uniform for them etc and help out in other areas

My Ex says I should stop my claim through CMS and I should just pay for my days and him for his, to be honest, I do admit I feel it is karma he pays (big cheat, living with one of the women now), I don’t need the maintenance to provide for the children (though it of course makes things a lot more comfortable)

So, I was just wondering what you would do in my position? AIBU to keep taking this money? I hate the fact that a bit of me is liking the fact he resents me having his money (his gf (the OW) told my kids that they couldn’t afford things as “your Mummy takes our money”), I know that makes me a horrible person!

So if you were in our position, would you think the payments should stop? Is maintenance only reasonable when the PWC needs it?

The CMS calculation is the minimum contribution a NRP should pay.
It would be ridiculous to pay lower.
The fact others get away with paying so little is not a factor.

I know in America a RP can not claim certain benefits unless they are claiming maintenance.
Sort of like 'why should the government fund kids when the parents don't'

Which is don't think is a bad idea.

You have majority care of course he should pay maintenance. What dies he think, the magic fairies are bringing up and paying for his dependents?

What a mean Dad. You need to pay for their rooms, schooling, everything I imagine.

It’s not about his or your wage. They’re his children and he should support them financially.

But if you really don’t need the money... what about saving it for uni, a house?

My DF did something like this for me (I’m not sure how you call it in English) but what he did entitled me to a certain amount of money every month until I reached a certain age or degree.

@Freddie, maybe a trust fund? I do savings rather than anything I am restricted from withdrawing from, just in case everything goes wrong (after previously being on the poverty line, I am aware not to be complacent)

It can pay for uni fees if you don’t need it right now, or tutoring if necessary etc.

The idea that a father wouldn’t pay maintenance because their mother has a reasonable job is really bizarre.

I haven't read the whole thread only OP.

Of course he should pay for his DC, if you really don't need the money then put it away for the children later in life. But don't divulge to him what you do with the money.

Setting up trust funds is expensive.

Cheaper just to set up savings accounts in your childrens’ names.

Funny they didn’t decide they couldn’t a new baby it is his older children he no longer needs to support 🙄. Continue to take what is the legal minimum for him to pay

It’s actually not a trust fund.

(I once had to write a paper for comparative law about financial arrangements and institutions - in particular the trust fund, seeing as it’s not a legally recognised concept in my homecountry and therefore associated with a rather high amount of insecurity, I’m surprised that I still remember that paper, tbh 🙈😂)

Anyhow, doesn’t really matter. Whatever you find suitable for you and your family.
I mean, why not help them buy a home or make university a bit easier for them (from a financial point of view. Not having to work / worry about money gives one a bit of an advantage, ime)?

Anyhow. You’re definitely entitled to this money. So YANBU.

You should at the very least be maxing out a Junior ISA for them, that's a little over £4k a year I think. Very tax efficient way of saving for their futures

I wonder how many of these dads thinking they are hard done by paying the bare minimum CMS payment would see it differently if they were presented with an itemised bill for the actual costs and expected to pay half that instead.

Suspect a few might opt to pay the CMS payment if given the choice.

My ex only pays £150 pcm as he is on a low income but he still manages to take DD swimming and to the cinema. If he prioritises cars and upgrading his home that's his choice. Take the money, invest it in premium bonds or something for the DC if you don't need it. Regardless of your income he made the children with you, he needs to pay for half their living costs

He should pay, it is his contribution to their lives, and that will matter to them when they are older.
As for his partner's comment, sheneed to know that lots of people can't afford to do lots of things because they have bills to pay.
He can afford his maintenance because he does pay it, what he can't afford are the baubles of life because he pays towards the upkeep of his children again not unusual for lots of parents.

It is not expensive to set up - my DCs will have a big contribution to Uni fees etc and I am in control till they are 25!!
They will take out the loan and pay the fees themselves and at the end of any course, I will use the monies to pay it off. I am not having them blow the monies, take out the loans and end up in debt - as one of my friends kids did. 3 yrs of uni, they paid fees up front and kid then took our full loans and partied well! Now in 30K debt!!!

The only way that is going down is if he has more nights or he earns less!!!

also think about what may happen in the future. you could become ill or redundant, as could your ex or your current partner. Bear in mind too that your kids expenses could increase too. e.g. due to illness, extra tuition etc. Therefore your household income could go down significantly as could your CM in the future. I would be inclined to save it, in case its needed for the future and if not then give it to the kids for a housing deposit. Surely that is preferable than the money going to OW?!!!

More seriously, I think its an extremely important point someone made upthread about the message that it sends to society if you refuse CM and CM came to be seen as optional.

I further imagine that you may well be out of pocket from your ex's behaviour / affair. e.g. divorce costs, increased childcare costs. And do you honestly think your ex would refuse CM if the shoe was on the other foot?

And as for OW's comment, I am truly gob-smacked. He really did manage to choose someone "special" didn't he!!

Basecamp - glad that worked for you, everyone's circumstances are different. Not everyone owns their house (especially these days) and to be honest I think many nrps NEED reminding they are parents - far too many seem to forget or want to behave as if they aren't.

Ginuser - are you implying your dh's ex neglected her DC? Really? But it's ok your dh paid the MINIMUM and you think eow contact, and clothes shoes and holidays made it ok? Sure it did hmmmm

Taylor22 the big difference in USA is they don't piss about in pursuing non-payers - unlike uk where numerous loopholes and non-pursuit means there's millions of nrp that don't pay or don't pay the amount they should.

"I wonder how many of these dads thinking they are hard done by paying the bare minimum CMS payment would see it differently if they were presented with an itemised bill for the actual costs and expected to pay half that instead" during one text "discussion" with my ex I did exactly this. As dd was still fairly young (and relatively cheaper at the time) I did

1/3 of our rent (which did actually work out to how much extra I was paying for a 2-bed as opposed to a 1-bed flat)
1/3 utilities - gas, electricity, phone line
1/3 of grocery bill
Clothes & shoes
Hobbies (cheap ones)
School uniform
School equipment
Transport
Out of school childcare (I was working ft at that point)

Half of the total was more than he was paying in maintenance - he's had 5 more children with the ow (they're now married) and he STILL bitched about how much he had to pay - which was actually less later when dd in high school as he lost the original job and is in a much lower paid one now and of course because of the RIDICULOUS situation where he gets a reduction for the first THREE children he had in the 2nd marriage.

On the plus side my dds stepmum would NEVER say what the ow in op said wouldn't even think it, if anything she helped me get the maintenance.

At the end of the day a shitty nrp is a shitty nrp - can't make them be decent people.

I completely agree. It baffles me that failure to pay isn't a criminal matter. How are beliefs and court not involved! I absolutely believe that awareness and change needs to be made.
Maybe it's something that could be started here.

Unicorn - I mean that I have been through a period of hiding from bailiffs and not having cash to buy food! I am not in that now, but yes, we all went ski-ing for a week, which isn’t at all necessary, but a lot of fun

“Comfortable” to me meant I can buy more than just necessities for the kids, which I couldn’t do 5 years ago

I am not making them miss out, if I were then I wouldn’t accept the maintenance, as I tried to explain earlier, the point is he CAN afford it, his annoyance is that I get it when he feels I “don’t need it” he is on circa £75k, he can afford £7 swimming

Ah OK I read the OP differently, spending the maintenance money on family holidays is great. I took comfortable to mean it being spent yourselves.
And yes I agree on 75k he should absolutely be able to afford swimming, what a joke.

Taylor the lack of enforcement in the uk is a joke! I had almost 15 years of having to call/email csa repeatedly just to get them to do their job. And my ex was in a steady easily tracked income job!

I completely agree. It baffles me that failure to pay isn't a criminal matter. How are beliefs and court not involved! I absolutely believe that awareness and change needs to be made.

It is a criminal matter. It's just that there's no priority put on it by the CSA or CMS. It's not socially unacceptable to not bother to pay maintenance so there's no clamour for the available sanctions to actually be used.

They can take direct from earnings, and can also take direct from a bank account if someone doesn't pay. They can also...

• asking bailiffs or sheriff offcers to go to the paying parent’s home and seize belongings, and then sell them to cover the child
maintenance owed
• putting a ‘charge’ against a property or some other asset so that it can’t be sold or remortgaged without the child maintenance being
paid off frst. This makes things diffcult for the paying parent and can
encourage them to pay
• forcing the sale of a property or other asset and collecting the money from it to pay the child maintenance owed
• taking away the paying parent’s driving licence
• sending the paying parent to prison

I've never heard of anything other than a deduction of earnings being used.

the lack of enforcement in the uk is a joke!

Completely.

When my father died relatively recently one of the things my siblings had to sort out what money he owed to the CSA. The money owed to my grandparents was written off as they were already deceased, but he owed the secretary of state money from when my grandparents (who looked after us) claimed benefits for a while [benefits that incidentally counted the money he was meant to pay as income!].

I'm the youngest "child" and I'm late 30's with 6 kids of my own!

I know in America a RP can not claim certain benefits unless they are claiming maintenance.
Sort of like 'why should the government fund kids when the parents don't'

Which is don't think is a bad idea.

That only works if collection services worked.

When I was a child the maintenance you were owed was counted toward benefits. My grandparents were "getting" £64 a week from my father. Then they were "getting" £37 a week from him.

However, they were only "getting" it according to the benefits people. Their housing benefit and other benefits (for looking afte 4 children they weren't expected to be looking after) when my Grandad was made redundant took the maintenance into account. It completely failed to take any account of the fact that the CSA got £20 twice or three times and then got nothing. Ever. So we, as a family, were that money a week down when we were already barely scraping by.

It's why the odd "Mary has 6 kids by 6 Dads and gets a grand a week in child support and claims benefits" story should never, ever, ever allow a return to child maintenance counting toward benefit calculations imo.

“your Mummy takes our money”

Translates as, "I wish he didn't have children but he does so I'll try to guilt his ex in to him not paying for them"

As far as I know (not a lawyer) non payment of child maintenance is a civil offence not a crime in uk

It's funny how the general consensus seems to be that as the nrp, the father has a responsibility to pay towards his kids regardless of his income (which I don't disagree with by the way), but no one has mentioned the mother and that the op and her dh actually pay her when, by everyone's standards for the father, she should be paying them, regardless of what she earns. I am assuming op that she didn't cheat on your DH?

Although you are perfectly within your rights to carry on collecting the payments (and actually I think you should), I do wonder whether the double standards when it comes to the mother's payments is due to the fact your ex cheated and you want to make him 'pay' (in both senses of the term!)? Anyway, I think there are some good suggestions re putting the money aside for them for when they're older from other posters.