AIBU to wonder if earlier generations really viewed early miscarriages differently?

[KitKat1985]

Just interested in garnering opinions on this really. I have debated whether to post this at all as I'm aware the subject matter is a sensitive one for a lot of people, so I've tried to really clear in the title that it's a thread about early miscarriages so those who don't want to read the whole post don't have to. But it's a conversation that really got me wondering recently so wanted to hear some views on it. I had a conversation recently with some women who were from a previous generation (think late 50's onwards). They basically said that back when they were having babies you weren't even really considered to be pregnant until you had missed two periods (so I guess would be about 8 weeks). They said they may have had occasions whereby they were late etc, but if they bled before the '2 missed period' mark they said they just put it down as 'one of those things', and were a bit dismissive about people in this generation who would report being really upset because they were having a miscarriage when it was very early on in their pregnancy. They also said that these days because of early sensitivity tests etc, people often consider themselves to be pregnant sometimes before their period is even late, which in their opinion was wrong and just led to a lot more heartbreak if things then didn't progress well. I'm wondering if they're telling the whole truth or not about how previous generations viewed early miscarriages. I can't completely believe that in a previous generation women didn't also feel a bit devastated if they started bleeding after they were late, and therefore must have probably also worked out that they were having an early pregnancy loss. I can to some extent sympathise with their theory though that testing really early can lead to more heartache. Do you think early miscarriages really were viewed differently a generation ago? Or do you think it was just more a taboo subject and if women were very upset about early losses they were just under societal pressure not to say it?

MY mum is in her 70s and regularly says you werent classed as pregnant until youd missed two periods. An early miscarriage was your period was just late.

I think we're mixing our generations up a bit here. I had my first DC in '93. I was doing preg tests and charting to conceive. I knew i was preg straight away
I totally agree!
Another factor if we're talking several generations ago is that life was just a lot harder for most people. If you've already got ten children that you're struggling to house and clothe and feed, I think women might reasonably happy they miscarried

Err women in their 50s were not born in 1870! I'm in my 50s and had my last DC in 2009! We could test and did care!

Also my mum is 83 and had miscarriages and a still born DS that she named and talks about to this day! People respond differently I think.

I had just started birth control when I was living with my boyfriend at uni. I felt something was amiss, went to the loo to feel something plop (but it wasn't a No.2), looked down to see what looked like a huge clot, thought it was strange and flushed. Only when I had closed the bathroom door I realised what it was, and what had just happened. I struggled my shoulders as I knew we didn't want a baby and went to cook dinner. I never told my then boyfriend as I never really thought about it much. I think my response would have been different if I knew I was pregnant and we would have stepped up as parents.

I guess that's what some women would have felt at the time, didn't know they were pregnant and probably just thought it was a big period.

My gran is catholic, got married in her early twenties and never used birth control. She had 9 full term pregnancies but 4 still borns. Apparently the young midwife who had delivered her twins but only one born breathing told her the gender of the other baby. The midwife didn't know the protocol of not telling the mother what gender and just wrapping up the baby to dispose of it. My gran essentially had back-to-back pregnancies for 15 years and didn't really think much of it except it was natures/God's way...

I have to say some of the descriptions on this thread are making me

I think as relevant as the differences in generations is the different attitudes that come with time and, crucially, knowing how things worked out. I've had three miscarriages before 7 weeks and now I'm 11.5 weeks pregnant. Obviously I still don't know what's going to happen with this one but I've had three good scans and am starting to feel more hopeful - and this thread has made me realise that as I do, I feel more philosophical about the previous losses. I think if I now have a healthy baby they'll be events I think about rarely, but after the third one, in particular, I was a mess, and ended up in counselling for anxiety (I know some people on this thread think this makes me a self-indulgent snowflake; screw you). But if someone could tell me then, or now, that I definitely will go on to have at least one child the pain would be a lot less. I think that's easy to forget when you look back - that the person going through it doesn't know whether they're getting a happy ending. I also suspect that, then and now, the grief of miscarriage is hugely heightened if you never go on to have a baby.

I'm also astonished that people keep saying that people 'used to' wait until 12 weeks before telling people - I don't know anyone who told anyone except family and maybe their very closest friend before 12 weeks. We've told a couple of friends who knew about the previous losses and so how anxious I was about this pregnancy, and, if all goes well, we'll tell other people at about 15 weeks. Among my social group, at least, the 12 week rule is very much still in operation.

And one final point (and then I'll shut up!) - if no one knew they were pregnant in the first trimester in the past, then the number of brides who coincidentally gave birth seven months after they married was truly astounding!

*I'm not older. But I didn't feel grief at my early miscarriages.

To me it was logical that the first 10 weeks or so was still testing out viability of the zygote.

I think we forget how haphazard and falible producing new humans can be*

This makes sense to me. I have ASD and have a similar thought process during early pregnancy.

Elementally, I think you're spot on with the planning aspect. We do expect to be in control now, and I think that's what people are being sceptical about too, when they suggest early testing is a bad thing. Otherwise, it's silly - if you don't believe in testing early, then don't! But a lot of people find it useful for whatever reason. Belittling someone else's upset isn't nice.

FWIW, there is no test which can tell you "days after conception" - anyone who believes they got a test that early is mistaken about when they conceived, because even a blood test can't pick up a positive result until at least a couple, in most cases 4-5 days after implantation which doesn't happen immediately either.

On the topic of 12 weeks being unlucky to tell people before - I think people are more sceptical of the idea of luck these days, I know I am, but it does still make sense to wait and tell people when things are a bit more secure because it's horrible to have random people you don't know very well asking you about the pregnancy and how things are going if they didn't get the subsequent news that you'd lost it.

My grandmother had a son die in infancy in the 1940s. He's buried in an unmarked grave as was common for infant deaths then. My Mum (who was born a few years later) only found out when she was an adult and looking through some paperwork. Her parents never talked about it. My grandparents had money so she'd have had the best possible medical care, and they were as able to control their family size as we are now. No 'spare children because lots die in infancy' but society still expected you to have a stiff upper lip about losing a child. Just think about some of the thalidomide baby episodes on Call the Midwife. I think where we are now is better, I listened to a R4 documentary about miscarriage a good few years ago and contrary to most people's assumptions women find early miscarriages particularly hard to deal with because they have to deal with their emotions alone. Although a late miscarriage is horrendously traumatic physically the fact that people know and are sympathetic means you do get support at a difficult time.

My mother, who has never had a miscarriage - but has lost a baby, is very dismissive of miscarriages.My grandmother had a still birth and was treated appallingly, but she 'just got on with it' or so she says. I think it is fair to say that attitudes were different.

Nevertheless, I have had a number of losses and I must say I kind of understand that. I just got on with it. Sure I was upset, particularly when I lost twin boys at 4 months, but maybe that's it. I know it could be worse and there seems to be so much attached to early pregnancy loss that I do wonder if some women are feeling overwhelmed because it is expected of them. With my last I realised actually I don't really care. It was a nuisance because of the whole being in hospital thing, but that was it really. But the nurses were pussyfooting around me and giving me tissues and asking if I wanted counselling when actually I just wanted to go home.

The 12wk rule is a relatively modern phenomenon that came along with the availability of ultrasounds. An ultrasound was carried out at around 12wks which tells you that the pregnancy appears to be viable, that it's located in the right place, and how many babies are in there. That's why many people wait until 12wks so they've had medical confirmation of the pregnancy.

Way, way, way back in ye olden days the baby beginning to move was confirmation of a healthy, viable pregnancy.

HCG was discovered in the 1920s and doctors/lab technicians had various ways of testing for pregnancy (they involved killing small animals so don't read up on it if you like bunnies) and the precursor to the modern home pregnancy test was developed for lab use in the 1960s with the first home kit available in the 1970s.

I was born in the early 80s and DM knew she was pregnant, confirmed by a doctor, at around 8wks (I say 'around' as she had no scans so dating was based on LMP and fundal height) and told people.

Women throughout history, whether they had tests available to them or not, would have known (especially after their first pregnancy when they knew what to expect) that a missed period plus pregnancy symptoms almost certainly meant they were pregnant. If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck.

I think on a basic emotional level that people have always been as they are now and someone with a wanted pregnancy will more often than not feel an emotional connection to it. It's not just cells, it's hopes and dreams, it's a future set in motion and if you lose it you lose those hopes and dreams. Just because it wasn't as well documented then as it is now doesn't mean that women weren't aware of their pregnancies or that they didn't feel sad about the lost ones.

I have had a miscarriage about 14 weeks.
it happened and I now have to live kicking and screaming DD's both not small anymore.
I just don't understand this Angel baby thing, teenagers I know seem to almost worship the child that never was, and can't seem to move on.
I know how lucky I am , but I also feel I had a pregnancy that was not viable and so it never came to full term..

I’m 59 and it was certainly true of every girl I knew. On the very rare occasion someone was sure they were pg before 8 weeks who then miscarried, it was assumed the foetus was not and never would be viable.

From what I remember, my mum, aunts and grandmother didn’t consider a pg remotely worth considering to be such until 3m.

Things were really horrific for previous generations

My Gm had a still birth at 7 months & baby was wrapped in a towel & handed to my GF, he was told to go out in the garden & bury it & never tell my GM where it was 😱

I think it's not only the ability to know you are pregnant earlier that has changed attitudes to miscarriage. Since the legalisation of abortion and the availability of the pill, most unwanted pregnancies will not have occurred or will already have been terminated before 12 weeks.

Miscarriages today will almost always be a disappointment at the very least and a distressing bereavement for some. With the trend to have babies later, there are fewer years to try to conceive and greater difficulties in achieving it.

Although women who suffered miscarriages of a much wanted child in the past suffered just as much - especially as there was no IVF or fertility treatment, there was a greater proportion of those for whom a miscarriage was a relief. After all, before legalised abortion, women risked their lives at the hands of back-street abortionists or DIY methods involving gin, a hot bath, and jumping down the stairs. It was a disgrace to be an unmarried mother and there was no help from the state to bring up a child on your own. Even for married couples, another pregnancy was often bad news, when the family budget was already stretched to the limit. That was bound to affect the way miscarriage was perceived.

Whereas now, even when a woman has terminated a pregnancy, there seems to be pressure on her to feel sadness, and that there's something unnatural about her if she doesn't. Context is everything.

Yet, in 50 years, the incidence of miscarriage hasn't changed. One in four pregnancies are likely to fail in the first trimester. I think we should remember that times have changed and be as sympathetic as possible when this happens, but, at the same time, hold back a bit on the celebrations for a positive test and building hopes and dreams for the future so as not to increase the heartache if they come to nothing.

Surely a lot of them did know though. The constant vomiting, dizziness and fatigue would be a give away. If I was having first tri symptoms and wasn't pregnant, I would check myself in to hospital thinking I was dying!

Concise, I’m sorry for your losses but I definitely did not feel overwhelmed because it was expected of me. I felt overwhelmed not only because I lost my child but I lost the life I thought was ahead of me. I really lost my way for a while. I already had two dss so it wasn’t even that I didn’t know if I could have one or not.

I’m 59 and it was certainly true of every girl I knew. On the very rare occasion someone was sure they were pg before 8 weeks who then miscarried, it was assumed the foetus was not and never would be viable.

But that's still what people think? It's medical fact that that's usually true, and it's what every doctor will tell you. It's just that - and in my experience only people who have never had a miscarriage seem to struggle to understand this - for someone who wanted and had planned for a pregnancy, knowing it wasn't ever viable doesn't bring any comfort. You're still not having a baby when you desperately wanted to, and that's what hurt.

I agree with you but every individual and experience is different.

I've had 2 very early losses that I know about, possibly more. One after 9mths the second after a further 12months and treatment. I do think about those babies (I raised a glass to them last night). I later went on to IVF and was scared to use a HPT.
a, I wanted to keep the feeling of Hope as long as possible.
b, I was scared of another early loss. If it happened and I didn't know then it wasn't going to hurt. If I had the Up of a positive test followed by the brutal Down of a loss it would have devastated me.

When the clinic phoned me with a positive they took my breath away.

So yes if you don't have a confirmed pregnancy then the loss isn't as sore because we you might not have been pregnant.

I am in my mid 50's. When I was 21 I was sure I was pregnant and told my boyfriend. We talked about getting married. About 8 weeks late, I had a very heavy period with a large clot like thing. It was only when I got older that I realised it was probably a miscarriage.

But surely it's not so difficult to believe people are different? I've had early losses and I'm glad I knew. It means I can move on. Whereas if I'd never known whether I was pregnant or not it would have driven me quite mad. Especially the one I know I passed.

So I think women grieved about miscarriages then, but early miscarriages were often not recognised as such.