AIBU to wonder if earlier generations really viewed early miscarriages differently?

[KitKat1985]

Just interested in garnering opinions on this really. I have debated whether to post this at all as I'm aware the subject matter is a sensitive one for a lot of people, so I've tried to really clear in the title that it's a thread about early miscarriages so those who don't want to read the whole post don't have to. But it's a conversation that really got me wondering recently so wanted to hear some views on it. I had a conversation recently with some women who were from a previous generation (think late 50's onwards). They basically said that back when they were having babies you weren't even really considered to be pregnant until you had missed two periods (so I guess would be about 8 weeks). They said they may have had occasions whereby they were late etc, but if they bled before the '2 missed period' mark they said they just put it down as 'one of those things', and were a bit dismissive about people in this generation who would report being really upset because they were having a miscarriage when it was very early on in their pregnancy. They also said that these days because of early sensitivity tests etc, people often consider themselves to be pregnant sometimes before their period is even late, which in their opinion was wrong and just led to a lot more heartbreak if things then didn't progress well. I'm wondering if they're telling the whole truth or not about how previous generations viewed early miscarriages. I can't completely believe that in a previous generation women didn't also feel a bit devastated if they started bleeding after they were late, and therefore must have probably also worked out that they were having an early pregnancy loss. I can to some extent sympathise with their theory though that testing really early can lead to more heartache. Do you think early miscarriages really were viewed differently a generation ago? Or do you think it was just more a taboo subject and if women were very upset about early losses they were just under societal pressure not to say it?

Yes I think they did. They just thought of it as a heavy period but they'd be disappointed there wasn't to be a baby but it was more of a try again next time rather than the loss of an actual baby. That's the impression I got. it's a sensitive subject and I've never had a miscarriage. But I know people who have. But grieving when you're a day or two late but have tested positive and then your period comes on isn't really good for your mental health. I remember my Mum being really dismissive of somebody and saying she's probably only about seven weeks and rolled her eyes. As if the woman wasn't really pregnant if she was only seven weeks.

Just to clarify this person wen on to have a healthy baby and didn't miscarry.

I was first pregnant in 1973 and my gp wouldn’t test but examined me after 8 weeks to confirm the pregnancy. I had a mc at 10 and a half weeks and it was really painful. I was allowed to grieve but my gp told me it was just one of those things. I was pregnant again 3 months later

When I had my Dd 18 years later I knew through using an early pregnancy test which I was very grateful to have.

I agree with that Vivienne but I'd also say the hormonal crash at 7/8 weeks can be overwhelming and It's quite hard to just turn it round though I always did.

zzzzz - you would definitely remember if it you had read Angela's Ashes. It was made into a film but I think you can only get it on DVD. It's about a poor family growing up in Ireland in I think the 1930s-40s, the book won loads of awards etc in the late 90s. The mother loved her children and was sad when 3 died in infancy but it was a real struggle keeping the others fed and clothed.

In fact, even in Call the Midwife there are bits about women pushing their husbands away because they are terrified of getting pregnant again.

I'm sure women who lost babies were sad at least on some level but practically speaking, I doubt they even had time to dwell on it. Where that's a good thing or a bad thing, who knows.

I should say that Angela's Ashes is an autobiography so I'm not just basing my opinion on a novel!!

Infertility is more of a problem now than 50 yrs ago.
My mom (born in 1930’s) had a mc, no emotional connection to the pregnancy “it wasn’t meant to be”, mc are common, not to be dwelled on attitude.
I believe the natural mc rate is 40 %, I feel bad when early testers get so attached early on when the reality is mc’s are very common.

My grandmother, had 12 children. 4 died in childbirth (I don't know whether stillborn or shortly after birth), one died at 2, the other died in early teens. 6 survived (not in a Western country, so medical facilities would have been similar to 150 + years ago in the UK.

Could she really have coped if on top of all of that she paid attention to all of the possible early miscarriages as well? I think she had to shut her mind off to it. How could she or anyone possibly stay sane otherwise.

It was only one poster who said early tests were self indulgent. I certainly don't agree with it but I don't understand why it's getting so many comments - it's derailing the more interesting aspects to this thread.

Please note I wouldn't say the following 'out loud' as I know it's delicate and could upset other people. However, I think my opinion is of interest on this thread and I hope it contributes to the discussion.

I'm 'old' and I miscarried my first pregnancy when I was about 12 weeks pregnant. I hadn't told anyone as I was waiting to see if the pregnancy had 'stuck'. When I miscarried I was upset as I was disappointed but I didn't consider that I had 'lost' a baby. I took it that the embryo wasn't developing properly so what I had lost was an opportunity to have a baby rather than an actual baby. I never grieved a baby as I didn't consider one had exsisted properly. Either my body wasn't ok to carry the embryonic matter or the embryonic matter was not viable. Iyswim. I fully understand that is not how some other people view it so I wouldn't dream of saying that normally.

Once I had miscarried I told my friends and coworkers and had nothing but support. The women and the men at my work were sympathetic and no one said anything inappropriate. Lots of people said that they had experienced the same thing which made me feel better. It certainly wasn't a taboo subject. I felt It was something to be sad about but not something to be devasted about. It felt like it was a normal thing to have happened. I thought it was all dealt with in a very healthy open way which suited me. I had to have a D and C (I think it was...can't remember really) and I had a cry in the hospital and the nurse couldn't have been sweeter. She was lovely and gave me a wonderful hug that I remember to this day. I was clearly told that it was normal that some women could feel very upset and I was given a leaflet with information about where I could get help from. There didn't seem to be any expectation about there being a correct way for me to behave.

I know that if it had been a later miscarriage or still birth then that would have felt very different. I also think that if I had had multiple miscarriages then I would have been far more upset.

Given the fact that so many women miscarry I'd find it hard to imagine that women didn't talk about it among themselves. Maybe the discussion wasn't quite as visible as it is today with Facebook etc but I'm sure it was there.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would agree with your group of older friends about being cautious about a pregnancy until you have missed a couple of periods. However, I wouldn't dream of being dismissive of anyone who was upset about an early miscarriage. I'm actually suprised that they said that 😳

If one of my daughters were pregnant and asked my advice I would encourage them to be a little cautious at the beginning. I think that would be sensible. Pregnancies are long so holding back a little on the excitement front at first isn't unrealistic.

One thing that I've noticed on many Mumsnet threads is that many women who are struggling with a miscarriage find it difficult to talk about their feelings with friends and family. This means that friends and family have to guess how to approach any difficult situations. For example some people want to acknowledge anniversaries while others don't want to. I think it needs to be easier for women (and men!) who are grieving to be able to talk about what they want. I don't see that that side of things has improved from when I was young. At least not going by what I read on Mumsnet.

This poem is a woman writing about her own early miscarriage in 1657: www.poetryexplorer.net/poem.php?id=10046105 Even though it’s obviously an early miscarriage (she says it’s a formless embryo) she still calls it ‘my Child’ and ‘my babe’, says it had a soul and will be in heaven now, and asks God what sin she committed to lose it. So no, it isn’t only modern women who grieve miscarriage

I agree these early tests are pointless. What is the point of detecting you have conceived before the pregnancy is established. Utterly pointless and meaningless, and quite self indulgent really. So unnecessary

I can still remember the test I did at only a few days late. It was a Saturday night and I was going to a dinner party where I knew there would be lots of wine. I wanted to know if I could have any of it- and obviously I couldn't.

I discussed this recently with an 80 year old aunt who had 3 miscarriages before 12 weeks - i have had 5. She described the same feelings and emotions as i did about it. One was very early (5-6 weeks) she said she knew she was pregnant and it was just as heartbreaking as her later ones. These were much wanted babies for a woman who ended up only having 1.

zzzz, sorry, I'm not trying to be nasty. Obviously you do appreciate then that some women may have mixed feelings when having a miscarriage - grief as well as relief.

I was just writing about the book in case it was of any interest to you any others reading the thread. I didn't know you have personal experience of a Catholic upbringing.

Interested to hear about a Catholic marrying a Muslim...you must have some interesting theological chats!

My mum recalls her friend having a miscarriage in the 1960s. She said the doctor was summoned to the house and after he'd dealt with it he handed her a tiny foetus to put on the fire downstairs. There was no suggestion of naming or burying it, and it wasn't spoken of again. It wasn't considered to be a "pregnancy" or a "baby".

As for the early testing. I have to test early so I can be booked in for scans from 6 weeks. They're not pointless. Testing before your period is due though can bring unnecessary heartache.

Leebird that is horrible. I'm older than you and am aware that for a lot of women, both in my generation and younger ones, a miscarriage is devastating. It certainly doesn't make them part of a snowflake generation.

zzz - I had initially thought that you meant it was bizarre that a woman would be relieved to miscarry if she had a lot of other children to cope with. Now I see what you meant was that it is bizarre that some people think that she shouldn't be upset because she has spares.

My apologies for misunderstanding you.

My grandma (would be 108 if she were still with us) grieved the loss of a baby she miscarried at 10 weeks her whole life. She considered herself a mother of 4 and talked about the baby she'd lost regularly.

I do think if you don't know you're pregnant and have a very early loss it's possible to just assume it's a late / heavy period. Having now experienced miscarriage I believe this happened to me in the past. I don't grieve those losses as I didn't realise they were happening. But I think once you know or suspect you're pregnant, if you go on to have a loss your reaction to that loss would be the same if you were experiencing it now or 50 years ago - that is to say that all women react differently to miscarriage even now and it's okay to be okay just as it's okay to be devastated.

And, yes, I do think younger generation do react to miscarriage differently. It is not called the SNOWFLAKE GENERATION for nothing.

Fucking really? You’re sneering at people grieving miscarriages because you think they’re snowflakes? Have a word with yourself.

Here’s a prayer for pregnant women to use, from a popular devotional book published before your time:

Almighty Lord, who in thy Mercy hast given me an hopeful Conception, carry it on I humbly intreat thee, to an happy Deliverance in thy due time. Oh! let not my Child fare the worse for mine Offences, nor deal with it according to my Deserts, but according to thy own tender Mercies. Give it its due shapes, and full growth: and preserve me from all Frights, or evil Accidents which may cause me to miscarry, and in great Love and Pity both to it and me, bring it into the World at its full Maturity.

What snowflakes women were in, er, the early 1700s...

nhs 'manufacturing belt' is so slow and ineffivient that you have to test early(ish) to get into the system and receive the right tests/scans at the right times.

This thread shows just how much women are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

On the one hand we are expected to test before a boozy dinner party so we can know whether or not we are drinking (see post above) but on the other, testing early is self indulgent snowflake behaviour.

So take note ladies, you need to both change your entire lifestyle the second you get pregnant, while simultaneously be so nonchalant about the fact you are upduffed, you don't even bother to find out whether you are or not

I'm not older. But I didn't feel grief at my early miscarriages.

To me it was logical that the first 10 weeks or so was still testing out viability of the zygote.

I think we forget how haphazard and falible producing new humans can be.