To say bras are not for boys

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Another trans bully nightmare. Targetting the yellowberry bra brand now

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/12/31/bra-gate-yellowberry-products-now-for-everyone/

When will this BS end?

positively I would have a registration form with name, age, then questions asking do you require cervical screening/mammography/prostate screening etc... along with a question about relevant family history/risk factors.

But why, when you could just say 'are you a man or a woman' and you would get the same result?

Surely the above just proves the point that it doesn't matter how you 'identify', your biology is what makes you a man or a woman, and there is nothing you can actually do to identify your way out of that.

You know all those Chinese baby girls who were killed over all the years for not being boys.......

How do you think they would have identified?

How do you think they were identified? What special skills were required?

What characteristics were honed in on? Did they do a brain scan to test for a lady brain?

Please do tell, you accusers of Terfiness

thehair I don't think it does, I think gender identity is as innate as sexual orientation, and completely separate from your genitals or sex organs. So for me, you are female/male/both/neither and can have any combination of sex organs/chromosomes/genitals, and you're still male/female/both/neither.

So your biology exists, and if you have a prostate you're at risk of prostate cancer, but that doesn't make you a man. Any more than were I to wake up tomorrow with a penis and a prostate I would be a man, I am a woman, but not because of my parts.

So if you knew this company was in the US and that MN is in the UK, why were you saying all that stuff about pubescent girls buying sexy, cleavage enhancing, push-up, padded bras?

Which was still a bit weird I've got to say.

"We are not seeing the same thing with being male, or boy or man. Is it because these transactivists are biological men using their mysogeny to batter down women."

It seems like it

I am very annoyed at anything and everything trans lobby related. I have definitely 'trans peaked' from the word go. I am an old school Germaine Greer type of feminist and at ease with this identity

Saying that I have no problem with these bras being marketed at 'young people' rather than at girls and changing from using the term girls explicitly in their marketing. My reasoning is that many young female teenager feels uncomfortable about the changes they are going through and as soon as they become more 'mature' physically they become objects of male sexual desire. I remember hating being seen as a bundle of curves for male pleasure rather than my smart, witty, unselfconscious self that I was used to. So not emphasising the 'girliness' of these bras is not necessarily bad. If bosy wish to wear them that's fine too albeit a bit weird to me but no real harm done.

I totally hate the bullying trans lobby. Privileged male chauvinistic loons.

loop

Define gender. Without resorting to stereo types.

I don't know why I'm bothering though.

You have said that you want to remove sexed terms from pretty much everything,

That crime / issues should be discussed in a non sexed way at all times

You've not responded with anything helpful nor any sympathy at the myriad of issues girls have related to their sex

And you've suggested that people with a poor reading age effectively be triaged out from much of the NHS

These are all BAD ideas, can't you see that? Bad for society, bad for minority groups...

And then tell me what part of gender requires a body part in order to "perform" it.

What is stopping a man wearing what he likes and still being a man.

Why can't girls wear what they like and still be a girl

loops biological men or transwoman have a prostate, biological or trans men do not. You cannot ignore biology or genetics or erase it to suit yourself. Sex is important, so that services can be tailored specifically towards either men or women. Even though a trans man, identifies as a woman, he is still buogically a man and man need a well man clinic, for prostate problems, or those illness affecting bio men, the same with women.

Daisy the woman who started the site, did so when she was 17, and speaks quite eloquently about going bra shopping with her sister, which is when she had the idea for her business, and also about her other sister who died when she was 5.

I think to remove all sexed or gendered words from the site would rip the heart out of the product really.

The floweryness isn't really my cup of tea but the woman is obviously passionate about it. And the bras themselves are really nice. Maybe I will order some from the states after all

You cannot ignore that it's mostly females or girls that are victims of rape and trafficking, to ignore that would do them a huge disservice, and to provide help for them.

The interesting thing is,

People want the words female, woman, girl, to have their definition changed.

OK then whatever.

Thing is, there is not allowed to be a different word or set of words to replace them. There must be no words to explain that most basic of mammallian categories - the sort who get pregnant and bear the young.

This is what I find interesting. Have woman / girl / female if you want them. But why can't there be a different name for this group? Why must we be disbanded?

"You cannot ignore that it's mostly females or girls that are victims of rape and trafficking, to ignore that would do them a huge disservice, and to provide help for them."

Yes, she can.

Here:

"thehair Well in a utopia there wouldn't be those problems, no. That's what a utopia is. However, if the only thing that was different was how we labelled genitals then yeh you'd still have those problems, and the majority of the people those problems would effect would be people who identified as women.

However it would also include some men, some non-binary people, some trans people etc... and that wouldn't make any difference in anything because you'd just say 'people who have been raped/been trafficked/experienced discrimination at work etc... you'd still be able to discuss the issues, just in a way that includes all people involved in the issue."

I am a woman, but not because of my parts.

Because of what then? What makes you a woman if not your body?

And *loopsorry im.not meaning to singke you out or badger you but you are still using phrases such as "identifying as"

But why would you identify as anything if it physically doesn't exist. You seemed to get it momentarily but then went back to "identifying as"

But here's nothing to identify as

positively I would have a registration form with name, age, then questions asking do you require cervical screening/mammography/prostate screening etc... along with a question about relevant family history/risk factors

So you advocate costing the health service millions of pounds to erase all mention of sex from paperwork and electronically in order to protect the feelings of a tiny minority? Where should the money come from. Should we cut cancer services, mental health, etc? Your naivety is breath taking.

I'm calling goady on this one, now.

upabit oh for goodness sake, I said it because that is why the company was founded????? Like, that is why it exists, so for the people that the company serves that issue is present. For trans girls IN AMERICA their options are as I said, and a company that tried to solve one issue inadvertently made another one that they are now solving. I don't believe I ever said that it applied to the UK, you actually made it about your own experience which clearly doesn't apply because you are in the UK.

And actually you suggested that people with a low reading age would have trouble with my suggestion, so if I were to suddenly be put in charge of making NHS screenings more inclusive I'd consider that and do something about it, I wouldn't just say 'oh well, people who can't read just won't get any care then'. There are plenty of ways in which forms are made more accessible to people who struggle to access and understand written English, that's hardly a huge barrier.

giles I can't define gender-identity any more than I can identify what a sexuality is. I can identify the result of having a gender (I am a woman) but not what part of my brain that comes from. I do know that it doesn't come from my biology or from my interests or from the way I choose to express myself day to day. I just am a woman, and I'd be a woman even with different biology.

What if we wanted to focus on sex and discuss issues relating to either males or females. FGM for example, here it happens to females, in a specific way that is different fromale circumcision. The reasons behind FGM are different to male circumcision. To ignore that, would've doing girls and women who have suffered this a huge disservice. They are people yes, but they are female people who have suffered this.

There are thousands of brands the world over which use gender to market their products. There are bigger fish to fry than yellowberry. But this lovely woman who sees the need for your girls to have a practical product devoid of any premature sexualisation has been targeted. Maybe she sat back and thought... mmmm. I want all humans to feel comfortable in their own skin so she altered her stance but if someone wants to create a real change in this area, it's the big brands they need to target.

BTW, anyone know of UK stockists?

And messages of support to [email protected], topic, I support you.

No you wouldn't.

Gender is nonsense.

You are born male or female.

The rest is personality.

If you were born a man witg a penis and testicles but like pink and dresses. You are a man who likes pink and dresses.

Dresses are just material. There are no laws that say you can't wear it. Pink is just a colour. It doesn't require breasts or a vagina to like it. You either like or or you don't

Equally im not a man because I wear trousers all the time and hated ballet and liked climbing trees.

Do you think all the women's rugby teams are really men?

And if you can accept women can like stereotypical boys/men's things then surely that proves gender is made up.

Its is just stereotypes.

What makes you a man or a woman is biology

Just read this

"There are plenty of ways in which forms are made more accessible to people who struggle to access and understand written English, that's hardly a huge barrier."

Low reading age / illiteracy is "hardly a huge barrier". Phew! That's a relief.

I agree either goady, or hopelessly naive and entirely lacking in empathy.

I just am a woman, and I'd be a woman even with different biology.

How on earth do you know that?! So you know for sure that if you had been born with a penis and testicles (i won't say 'male' as it's apparently incorrect) you know you would still be a woman inside and you would be 'transgender'? Seriously?!

positively I doubt that it would cost millions to change some words on a registration form, the forms already exist. You just change the words on the template and print the different ones. It would be the same size form, the same rest of the form.

But, if it would cost millions then no I wouldn't campaign for it (put money in other services obviously) it's just an option to make it more inclusive.

giles gender would still exist, it just wouldn't be tied to biology. But again, if you don't view gender-identity as innate then we're literally never going to agree. I do view it as innate.

thehair my gender identity is female/woman, I would still be me if I didn't have a uterus/ovaries/breasts. I have a gender identity, I have a sexuality, that comes from my brain and if you put my brain in a different body I'd still be me.

"I just am a woman, and I'd be a woman even with different biology."

Is there any fucking point debating with this BS. It's just utterly illogical.

Millennia of science and philosophy and this, this is where we are. This is how people use their brains

Happy fucking New Year