To say bras are not for boys

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Another trans bully nightmare. Targetting the yellowberry bra brand now

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/12/31/bra-gate-yellowberry-products-now-for-everyone/

When will this BS end?

I can't think that trans women or non trans women wod want to wear sanpro, unless they get sexual pleasure of the feel of nasty plastic against their genitals.

What the fuck is this world coming to? Girls can’t have bras marketed at them, were no longer allowed to use the term pregnant women anymore,
Sanitary towels and such will also not be able to be marketed for us either soon.
I honestly would do all I could to make people feel comfortable, but really, are we at the point where we are no longer able to keep anything for ourselves?

I honestly started seeing trans threads in here, I felt people were being unnecessarily harsh. But I am fed up of this shit.

More so, I’m concerned at how confusing this shit is for the younger generation.

10,20 years ago- there were tomboys, there were sensitive boys who liked to hang out with kids of the opposite gender. It was kind of understood- now these kids are given label of “trans” Ive been flipping asked if my child was trans because she likes football, and given the opportunity to dress up as someone she looked up to- went into school in a hard hat and safety boots (her Dads a SM)

I had a friend on facebook, who allows her son to have painted nails, he’s grown his hair out and often wears dresses. In the next post- oh he’s a good boy.

This shit is confusing to our kids.

Let people be who or what they want to be, but for fucksake let’s stop messing about with the parameters of what’s feminine and what’s not.

upabit I didn't say they should shut down? I said that if there is no problem finding non-sexualised underwear for children then there was no reason for the founder to start the business. Clearly for some people it is hard, so the business has a purpose/fills a gap in the market.

Maybe that gap only exists in the US (I wouldn't be surprised if that was true) but trans girls exist in the US. If this business isn't relevant in the UK, then why do you care that they may change their branding to be more inclusive? You clearly wouldn't need to buy from them because they don't fill a gap in the UK market.

thehair Well in a utopia there wouldn't be those problems, no. That's what a utopia is. However, if the only thing that was different was how we labelled genitals then yeh you'd still have those problems, and the majority of the people those problems would effect would be people who identified as women.

However it would also include some men, some non-binary people, some trans people etc... and that wouldn't make any difference in anything because you'd just say 'people who have been raped/been trafficked/experienced discrimination at work etc... you'd still be able to discuss the issues, just in a way that includes all people involved in the issue.

Funnily enough people who disagree have thought about, have discussed it, have looked at things from your perspective (not everyone I'll admit, some people are just horrible people and just want to attack others) and still don't agree. There's no way any of us is gonna know who is right until it's over, and it's not gonna be over for a long time.

I have to say, I would have probably looked at their site if they'd stuck with their original reply, the backtracking apology has the opposite effect

Yes you said why did they bother and that they have a crap business model and don't need to exist.

Very few companies "need" to exist and I think you are being overly harsh. There may be a market for this in the US. I don't know, I am in the UK.

"upabit by that argument Yellowberry doesn't need to exist at all then? If it's easy to find non-padded/non-sexualised bras up to a C cup in all the shops then the founder's entire business model wasn't anything new, special, or necessary. Good, cause $99 for a pack of 3 bras is crazy prices."

Oh and their merchandise is too expensive so it looks like they'll fail and that's good.

Not sure why so much hatred, seems like they were trying to do a nice thing to me.

I'm glad young people are more accepting. Actually im finding that many of my boys' friends are starting to trans peak, as they're beginning to see the direct impact of the trans fantasy is having on other friends, including sexual harassment. They're happy to use the pronouns and happy to respect other people's view of themselves, but are now less likely to actually believe that fantasy.

How do you see this playing out, Loop? If we can't use terms to denote someone's sex, how are we going to deal with illnesses and cancers unique to each sex. Should the health service just send out letters and appointments to every single adult that reach 50, to remind to get those lumps of tissue on their chest checked out? Should they be accepting hairy chested people with a cock and balls (MAN) when they want a mammogram? I'm sure those with a vagina (WOMAN) won't mind the waiting list getting longer, just so those who identify as women can be validated and not have their feelings hurt. Oh, that's right they can't identify as a woman, as that term is hurtful. 🤔

Nut how can trans and Non binary people exist of man and woman doesn't exist.

You haven't answered the question at all. How can you be or not be something that doesn't exist?

giles a side of the argument/debate

There are 2 sides of this debate, the gender-critical side and the intersectional/trans-inclusive/language was constructed and can be changed to meet the needs of society side.

In 100 years when people look back on this period of history, one of these sides will be wrong and one right, we don't know which and probably never will (I doubt I'm gonna live for 100 more years even with advances in medical tech). So all we can do for the right now, is pick a side and hope we're doing what's right for the future.

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question.

If wonen/girl doesn't exist how can these non no art and trans people exist?

The very argument eradicate the existence you think you are trying to protect

Non binary

"However it would also include some men, some non-binary people, some trans people etc... and that wouldn't make any difference in anything because you'd just say 'people who have been raped/been trafficked/experienced discrimination at work etc... you'd still be able to discuss the issues, just in a way that includes all people involved in the issue."

So the idea IS to remove any reference to women / girls from everything. And to invisibilise the sex of the majority of victims / perpetrators of different crimes / issues.

Interesting to have it confirmed so easily!

some people are just horrible people and just want to attack others

You're right there, Loop, women are being attacked by horrible people, who won't be happy until they are errased out of all women's sports, rape centres, women's shelters, ect.

upabit YOU said that you didn't have any trouble finding non-sexualised underwear. I am glad you didn't, however obviously your experience is not universal or the company would have no reason for existing because the founder would have found a nice non-sexualised bra when shopping with her younger sister and never would have come up with the idea.

The "good cause $99 is crazy prices for 3 bras" was sarcasm...although I do think almost $100 for 3 bras is crazy prices but bras are generally too expensive.

I also think they're a fab company, and they are doing a good thing, even better now they're trying to be more inclusive.

However it would also include some men, some non-binary people, some trans people etc... and that wouldn't make any difference in anything because you'd just say 'people who have been raped/been trafficked/experienced discrimination at work etc... you'd still be able to discuss the issues, just in a way that includes all people involved in the issue.

No, because you cannot solve a problem if you don't identify who the perpetrators are and the reasons for the problem coming about in the first place. For example trans people and women may both suffer discrimination at work, but they do so for very different reasons. They are not the same 'issue'. And you cannot solve the issues of women being discriminated against at work because of the reproductive capacities if you are not allowed to mention that they are women and as a group have these reproductive capacities.

Yes if there is no such thing as 'man/woman' then surely you can't have 'transman/transwoman' either?

And the idea that we all sit around saying "Well there is an issue with feotuses / children being aborted / murdered at birth in some parts of the world because they are undervalued, I'm not going to be able to tell you any defining characteristics of that group for the sake of inclusion, however we all know who we're talking about". It's also going to be hard to explain why they are undervalued without referencing certain exclusionary characteristics, so let's just have a generic "kids are great" campaign and that should help a lot".

loops I am in the UK

They are in the US

A point that you didn't seem aware of until someone pointed it out to you, which also means that you didn't bother reading any of the article before rushing in and telling everyone off.

out of interest, at what age will my opinions become acceptable
Ok, this wasn't adressed to me, but I'll answer it. You may ignore my answer if you wish.
Opinions are always acceptable, as long as the person who understands they are just an opinion and in no way should other people be pressurised into modifying their behaviour to go along with your opinion.
Facts are facts, therfore can be objectively observed and proved, therefore it makes sense that policies should be based on fact. The fact is, all people who have menstrual periods are women. If some people are upset by that fact because of gender dysphoria then the onus is on them to deal with their distress, not with companies that produce products to change their marketing to alleviate the distress of a few individuals.
Incidentally, I don't think it's got much to do with age. I have a 21 year old who was quite gender non conforming until he was 12 or so. I raised him to deal with it him self. In other words,he fits in with society, he doesn't expect other people to change to fit in with him.

There are all sorts of niche bra sellers. Those specifically for big breast, post mastectomy, post surgical enhancement, for men etc and all of them are marketed to their specific demographic - this is the cornerstone of advertising. It doesn't exclude anyone else form purchasing them though and if there are people who can find the time and energy to create markets for breast binders and the like, then there are people who could create markets for chest support for tif's. If they aren't doing it then there are reasons for that, but they don't include "not having the time".

loops if you click on the "my story" but you will see there are still references to girls, use of the pronoun "she" and similar.

Maybe you should get in touch?

upabit when you copied you missed out the bit before that where I said that the majority of those people would identify as women. Hardly trying to remove women from there am I? If I say "x is for women" then it suggests it is just for women, if I say "x is for all people" then women are still included because they are people.

giles good point, I guess yeh you're right, if we changed language so that a person is just a person and can have any make-up of body parts/functions and still identify the way they want then we probably wouldn't have trans, they'd just be however they identified (woman, man, both, neither).

positively I would have a registration form with name, age, then questions asking do you require cervical screening/mammography/prostate screening etc... along with a question about relevant family history/risk factors. Seems that would actually produce even more targeted screening programs, but I'm sure there are problems with doing it that way that I haven't considered.

Most women don't "identify as women" they simply are women, as pointed to by their biology and the way they have been treated all their lives because of that biology.

To pretend that woman actually means something else and moreso that all women know this, understand it, agree with it, and self identify into it is highly offensive.

The site as I mention still uses "she" and "her" a lot, talks about "sisters" ie female siblings and so on. You need to get on to them.

"I would have a registration form with name, age, then questions asking do you require cervical screening/mammography/prostate screening etc... along with a question about relevant family history/risk factors. Seems that would actually produce even more targeted screening programs, but I'm sure there are problems with doing it that way that I haven't considered."

Yes, the fact that many in the UK have a very low reading age and would be very much put off going to the doctor if they were presented with giant checklists including words that they didn't understand and didn't want to ask about.

Additionally the time and cost involved in asking every person about every sexed part of their body rather than just asking their sex would be much higher.

There is also the issue that asking people if they require / want certain types of tests is not the same as a person being advised to have certain tests based on broad characteristics. Like age, sex, weight, etc.

upabit I read the article, and the full thread, before commenting. I also went to the website to see it for myself and was aware it was in the US (hence why I had to include US in the search terms to get the website to appear at all). This is still a problem in the UK though, because once young people need to buy bras in sizes they then face the limits of an adult lingerie department. Which tends to be, padding, cleavage enhancing, more padding etc... I'm glad children in the UK have more appropriate and suitable options than in the US, I am glad this US company exists, and I am glad that this particular company is trying to be more inclusive in their marketing. I hope it sets a standard for other retailers.

And yes, I see that there is still obvious gendering on the website, seeing as this happened like 3 days ago and it was New Year, maybe we should give them some time to make any changes they are going to make.