To say bras are not for boys

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Another trans bully nightmare. Targetting the yellowberry bra brand now

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/12/31/bra-gate-yellowberry-products-now-for-everyone/

When will this BS end?

I am not a "bra wearer" or a "breast haver"

I should say, I am, but I don't wish to define myself in those terms to pander to others.

Let's have a look at this from the Girl Guides:

"30% of girls aged 11 to 16 think computing is more for boys.
37% of girls aged 11 to 21 say their confidence would be better if there were no gender stereotypes.
44% of girls aged 11 to 21 have seen statements about women or girls that they thought were sexist on the news or social media in the past week.
Sometimes when girls want to play sports in school, boys make fun of you. I want to play football but I can’t because I feel uncomfortable and boys stare at you. - Girl aged 7 to 10, Girls' Attitudes Survey

Things that girls have seen or experienced in the past week
39% girls having their brastrap pulled by boys
27% girls’ skirts being pulled up by boys at school"

Now let's rewrite in accordance with the new rules.

Item from the Guides.

"30% of young people aged 11 to 16 think computing is more for other young people.
37% of young people aged 11 to 21 say their confidence would be better if there were no gender stereotypes.
44% of people aged 11 to 21 have seen statements about people that they thought were sexist on the news or social media in the past week.
Sometimes when children want to play sports in school, children make fun of you. I want to play football but I can’t because I feel uncomfortable and children stare at you. - Child aged 7 to 10, Guides Attitudes Survey

Things that young people have seen or experienced in the past week
39% children having their brastrap pulled by children
27% childrens' skirts being pulled up by children at school"

Phew! That's better. Better all round really, for a number of reasons. I love progress.

positively I don't see the need for sanpro to be advertised as 'for women', if it was advertised as period protection then again it would describe the use of the product and people who have periods would still buy it.

upabit that was my point, there aren't enough bra options for young people that aren't all padded and designed to give cleavage. Very few young/developing people want that kind of underwear. Some of those young people will eventually want padded options, some will not. Some of those people are not, or do not identify as, female/woman/girl.

Make more bras that are not sexualised/padded/designed to give curves. Market underwear to those that need that specific underwear.

Market all products to anyone who needs/wants that particular product, you're widening your market.

Loops - why should they get to piggy-back on the hard work of somebody who saw an issue in a specific market and took the risk and put the effort in to create something that fulfilled a perceived need?

Those that have a need for that kind of product are free to do the same.

It speaks to this culture of entitlement that surrounds the trans rights activism, that everybody else must change reality to suit the needs of a few.

Despite the increase in trans identifying females in the tween/teen category, their numbers are still vastly smaller than girls with no gender issues and those girls are entitled to have their need for non-sexualized, practical and comfortable underwear made and marketed to them.

Or loop why don't they go to the many retailers that stock varying bras of different shapes and course, instead of bullying a little start up. If I want to buy y fronts which is specifically a men's garment, I will need to go into the men's section and choose them amongst men who are also choosing underwear. I might need to even go to a specific men's underwear shop to get some. However I will not bully companies, that don't market their underwear in a gender neutral way. In the men's underwear section, there may be pictures of men posing in their y fronts, to advertise the style. He'll kick up a stink over that
A complete non issue.

upabit it's Girlguiding UK and those responses from young members will include trans girls and young women as GGUK are a single gender organisation that includes all girls.

I don't see the need for sanpro to be advertised as 'for women'

Huh?!

Make more bras that are not sexualised/padded/designed to give curves.

Wasn't this the USP of the company in question in the first place?!

When I was in Bravissimo, I saw bras of different shapes and colours, some t shirt ones, black, white, grey, very infancy, sports ones. If I want to wear a feminine and floral bra, it's my right, I want that choice when I go to a store, not a sea of plain neutral course and styles, as companies have been bullied like this one!

As for not seeing the need for sanpro being advertised for women, I am literally 😂😂😂😂😂

It is biological woman that menstruater, not men or trans women, unless they have had a hysterectomy or gynecology problems.

pixie Nobody needs something marketed to their gender, they need to be able to purchase products that they need/want to use.

Changing some wording so that people feel included in the target market doesn't remove anyone else's ability to purchase that product.

If the tesco aisle said 'sanitary products' or 'period products' or even just plain old 'tampons and pads' rather than feminine hygiene then it wouldn't stop people being able to buy them.

The 'need' is a product to help manage a period, not 'I need to buy things marketed to women for my period'.

The need is a product to support developing breasts in a way that doesn't sexualise a child. Not "I need underwear for women".

I wish more people would start a business that makes children's underwear that isn't sexualised, or that all underwear designed for children was genderless and not-sexual, but that's quite a bit more expensive than just changing some words on a website.

Not everyone is or can be a business owner, but that doesn't mean that the consumer shouldn't have some say in the running of a business. Being rude to your customers isn't the most sound marketing strategy.

loops I don't understand your response in relation to what I wrote.

You agree with the rewrite I take it.

I also see that you are saying that these responses are likely to have come from trans girls - your point then is that female oppression is based on sex not gender? That it is the feminine that is oppressed and not the female? That even though it is a tiny tiny infinitessimal amount of trans girls who are likely included in those stats - you feel the need to say it in order to reduce / minimise the stuff that girls go through at school every day in the UK.

The blatant disregard for the cunty type of female is utterly predictable and utterly depressing.

These TAs simply do not give one shiny shit about women and girls do they. Trying to get the F out of FGM, screaming at charities that support girls around the world around periods, referring to girls as "non prostate havers" and not bothering to mention the clitoris in an article about sex, and on and on and on and on.

I am a menstruating woman, not a menstruating person ffs!

Phew! That's better. Better all round really, for a number of reasons. I love progress.

Exactly! Brilliant demonstration of the problem with making sex based oppression invisible. I love your post.

Sorry your point is that female oppression is based on gender not sex.

So all these girls who are out at age 12 buying their cleavage enhancing underwear (?) are really asking for it with the whole "femininity" thing. If they don't like men staring at their tits then they simply need to buy a different bra and ID as non female.

yes because GNC women all over the world confirm how well that works.

OK, so what if all sanpro was advertised as for managing periods, would swathes of women suddenly not be able to buy it because it wasn't advertised for women?

Having a trans man in a sanpro advert wouldn't suddenly make people who don't have periods think they need to manage their period.

Changing some wording so that people feel included in the target market doesn't remove anyone else's ability to purchase that product

And what benefit will "being included" be when changing words means the site doesn't come up in Google search unless you specifically name the company.

How does a sign saying feminine hygiene stop anyone buying anything?

And feminine is about gender. Men and women can be feminine or not. So as much as I hate the term, it is already not related to sex.

GNC women don't freak out and start shouting when they buy tampons from the feminine hygiene aisle

But the reason that trans men need to buy sanitary products is because they are... Women?

upabit it's Girlguiding UK and those responses from young members will include trans girls and young women as GGUK are a single gender organisation that includes all girls.

Don't you understand her point? What if the data was from a couple of years ago when men and boys were not counted as women and girls? Would you actually be able to wrap your brain around the potential issue then?

I wonder what is going to happen with sex education.

And why it's just anything mentioning girls / women that is deemed offensive.

Non men
Non prostate havers

I mean fuck off.

Let's rename it "female hygiene". Job done

Well the government is consulting on this now. So I would strongly urge you - and anyone on this thread who also has concerns about what our children might be being taught in future - to take part in the consultation.

Can anyone link to it?

Loops why are you so insistent on changing the meaning of words?

Women are oppressed because of their periods. Not men.

Upabit no? I'm saying that more companies should have underwear that is non-sexualised and aimed at children. Sexualising children is bad.

I'm saying that trans girls who are wanting a bra are faced with basically a choice of

1. sexualised bras that are padded and designed to enhance cleavage

2. a company that is aimed specifically at trans people who sell binders and packers (which isn't necessarily what you want your child to be thinking about or

3. a company aimed at their age, with appropriate underwear but that also shouts about how they are girls/female/daughters all over their website.

Girls also face problem 1, but they have the option of 3 without feeling they are not included because they are girls and it's for them.

Ideally we'd solve problem 1 as well, but until then fixing some words on option 3 solves that problem for trans girls and doesn't take anything away from other girls.

Loops why are you so insistent on changing the meaning of words?

Because she's quite young, not a particularly critical thinker, and has bought into gender identity and queer theory wholesale. It's literal violence that a person shouldn't feel included at all times.