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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What are my legal rights here? And WIBU?

159 replies

DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:08

I live in a block of flats, six in total.

The top floor flat dweller has continuously left the pram she no longer uses (baby is now 3yo) in the ground floor communal corridor for nearly a year.

It is a narrow corridor, and to get past the pram you have to manoeuvre yourself around it. You can’t just walk straight past it. It was a major fire hazard and more than one person has fallen over it trying to get past.

Everyone in the building has complained about it but she hasn’t paid the slightest bit of notice.

I got fed up after the nth polite but firm email requesting its removal and informed her that unless she moved it by X date, I would remove the pram.

X date came and went, pram was still there. So I took the pram and put it in the garden.

This finally got a response. She went ballistic at me and claimed that it had been stolen by the time she went to collect it.

She is now demanding I pay for the pram and is threatening me with the police and legal action.

Was I being unreasonable and does anyone know what my legal position is on this?

OP posts:
Didntcomeheretofuckspiders · 01/01/2018 02:14

No idea what the law would say about this but she WBU in a big way. I suppose whether you rent or own your flats makes some difference as if renting, the landlord/housing association should have addressed it?

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:19

AFAIK there are 2 homeowners and the rest rent.

She is a renter and her LL was approached about it. LL did respond to say that they had asked her to remove the pram but nothing actually happened.

The management company also issued a general letter to us all stating that the communal areas should be kept clear. But she ignored that notice.

OP posts:
shakingmyhead1 · 01/01/2018 02:39

i would have replied that the pram wasn't there on the date and you assumed she had collected it and thanked her for finely doing so

shakingmyhead1 · 01/01/2018 02:40

can she prove you moved it, has she got witnesses ?

SelenaMeyer2016 · 01/01/2018 02:46

Are you all free-holders? What is your lease?

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:47

Thanks for your responses.

can she prove you moved it, has she got witnesses

Well, yes, I told her!

I emailed her to say that I had a friend visiting who needed access to the communal area without restriction (this is true as friend is on crutches) and so I had moved the pram to the garden.

OP posts:
Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:49

What is your lease?

It clearly says in the lease that communal areas should not be blocked save temporarily for unloading.

OP posts:
SelenaMeyer2016 · 01/01/2018 02:49

Pram hasn’t been stolen; she’s trying it on

SelenaMeyer2016 · 01/01/2018 02:50

So every time you see the pram you need to report it

Margaritaanyone89 · 01/01/2018 02:51

What an unconsiderate neighbour, I grew up in flats and never left anything in a communal area. She obviously doesn't want her space taken up in her home by an unnecessary pram but feels it ok to put her clutter in the way of others? Especially as it's a fire hazard you have grounds to remove it. Don't give her any money for it! Very tricky situation as it's difficult being at war with one of your neighbours, but if she's going to be a CF then you really have no choice but to step in and move it!

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:53

Report it to who though?

She is threatening to report ME to the police.

OP posts:
Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 02:54

^^ That was in response to Selena

OP posts:
Weezol · 01/01/2018 02:56

You'll need to double check this, as it's a few years since I dealt with a similar problem, but my understanding is that if someone has been asked to remove something from a communal area (she has, by her landlord and the management company) and doesn't so so in a timely fashion, the item is then classed as abandoned and can be removed as rubbish.

Another approach could be to remind the management company that by failing to keep exit routes clear they are invalidating their buildings insurance, and could be sued by tenants if the obstruction causes injury. I have got many things resolved very quickly by saying this. Hit them where it hurts - a kick in the money bag!

Weezol · 01/01/2018 03:00

Sorry, hit 'post' too soon.
As for her, she has zero legal recourse against you for the reasons I gave previously. She's either trying it on or being a bit stupid. Tell her you look forward to hearing from her solicitor - call her bluff. If she wants to piss away time and money over an old pram, leave her to it. No solicitor or police officer will pursue this.

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 03:03

That’s a really helpful post, thank you Weezol.

When you say you’ve dealt with this before, do you mean as a dweller or as a lawyer?

That’s really interesting about stuff being classed as rubbish if not removed in a timely fashion as there have been numerous emails and notices for several months that she repeatedly ignored.

Where could I find out my rights should she follow through with her threat to report me to the police for theft?

OP posts:
Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 03:04

X-post.

OP posts:
RestingGrinchFace · 01/01/2018 03:09

It's not theft unless you intended to permenantly deprive her of it. Which you didn't so the police won't care. In your place I would write a bogus preaction letter from a solicitor claiming that you tripped over it a injured yourself and that you will be taking her to court for damages. I'm sure that she will move it then.

SilverBirchTree · 01/01/2018 03:16

Is the pram gone? Or is it in the garden?

The police will think this is nonsense and a lawyer will charge more than the cost of an old pram to open a file. I wouldn’t worry about criminal or civil legal recourse, but you might have to deal with a cranky neighbour.

So rude of her to leave a pram in the way. I had a similar problem with a neighbour leaving a motor bike. Some people are so selfish!

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 03:25

The pram is gone. It’s not in the hallway or garden. Whether she is telling the truth that it was stolen I don’t know.

For all I know she could have sold it.

But would she really go as far as to threaten legal action if it hadn’t genuinely gone missing since I put it in the garden?

I will call her bluff and go with Weezol’s suggestions.

OP posts:
IndigoMoonFlower · 01/01/2018 03:40

This is a health and safety hazard. Can you photograph the pram outside her home and write to the management company explaining the situation? Take photographic evidence of any written notice you gave her and keep a record of dates in case you need them in future. Get witnesses in case she stirs up trouble. I like what Weezol said.

BoomBoomsCousin · 01/01/2018 03:41

Don't worry too much about being reported to the police. What you did was not theft. They might interview you, but it wouldn't go anywhere. You might circumvent the whole thing by calling your local station first and asking to speak with the community officer for your area - tell them you are concerned about your neighbour's behaviour and tell them the whole tale. Keep any emails etc. that you've exchanged as evidence just in case she starts lying about what you've told her.

However, you can't simply cause someone to have lost rights to their property by telling them if they don't do something with it you are. You need some sort of authority for that, which being only a tenant in the building and not part of the management of the communal areas, you probably don't have. She could potentially try and sue you for the loss of pram, but it would effort on her part. Since it shouldn't have been there and you warned her you may find she has a very weak case against you, but I don't know, you really need a qualified solicitor to look at that if she does threaten court.

Don't pretend to be a solicitor yourself - that makes your dealing with her dishonest which may colour any later judgement through official channels.

In the future work through the management company and your landlord - they have the duty and should have the authority to keep the communal areas clear. Badger them if they don't do their job and remind them of their duty towards all residents.

Thesecondtoast · 01/01/2018 03:44

Who owns the freehold?

Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 03:49

The six flats have share of the freehold.

I am one of two home owners and so I own 1/6 of the freehold.

We employ a management company to collect service charges and they also deal with all issues to do with property management.

OP posts:
Original poster
DidIDoTheWrongThing · 01/01/2018 03:53

Sorry, that wasn’t very clear.

I am one of two homeowners who live in the building. The other four flats are rented out.

OP posts:
CheapSausagesAndSpam · 01/01/2018 04:02

Send her a letter saying

I removed a fire hazard from the hallway which legally should not have been there. It was not only a fire hazard but also a tripping hazard. If you contact me about this again, I will not hesitate to report you to the police for harrassment. You have no legal rights to ask me for anything in relation to your property because it was legally abandoned.