What are my legal rights here? And WIBU?

[DidIDoTheWrongThing]

I live in a block of flats, six in total.

The top floor flat dweller has continuously left the pram she no longer uses (baby is now 3yo) in the ground floor communal corridor for nearly a year.

It is a narrow corridor, and to get past the pram you have to manoeuvre yourself around it. You can’t just walk straight past it. It was a major fire hazard and more than one person has fallen over it trying to get past.

Everyone in the building has complained about it but she hasn’t paid the slightest bit of notice.

I got fed up after the nth polite but firm email requesting its removal and informed her that unless she moved it by X date, I would remove the pram.

X date came and went, pram was still there. So I took the pram and put it in the garden.

This finally got a response. She went ballistic at me and claimed that it had been stolen by the time she went to collect it.

She is now demanding I pay for the pram and is threatening me with the police and legal action.

Was I being unreasonable and does anyone know what my legal position is on this?

I think Weezol sounds like she/he knows what they’re talking about and sounds like good advice.

You are a 1/6th owner of the freehold WHO employee the managament company, so in this respect you are acting on behalf of the management company in enforcing the already sent letters.

We have the same issue, however we have been told we can't just remove stuff, we have to keep safe (and can charge for storage) for items we remove. (for a reasonable period). So she MAY be able to sue the management company (not you, as you were acting for the management company). But its not a police matter (beyond reporting that it was stolen after it had been moved which they could investigate that aspect).

arma.org.uk/downloader/f1r/2014-06_ARMA_Advice_Note_-_Fire_Safety_V01.pdf

Page 7 specifically mentions prams in hallways.

But what was I supposed to do with it when my friend came round? She is disabled and needed the whole space, and the pram was obstructing the path. It needed to be moved

Was I supposed to move it out of the building when she came into the block then move it back to it’s obstructing bv place, then move it out again when my friend needed to leave, moving it back to it’s offending position after she left

In my opinion, where you went wrong is actually emailing her (putting in writing) that you had moved her item outside. She was told to move it, it was clearly in everyone's way, it was a fire hazard, etc so you moved it. I can understand that, but I wouldn't have written to her and told her because she could show that to the police vs if you'd said nothing, suddenly her item is gone then what could she do? I'm afraid you will continue to receive hassle from her about the 'missing' item now though.

Let her call the police if she wants. Show them the letters from her landlord and the management company showing that she was asked to move the item. She can explain to them why she didn't. You moved it to allow a disabled person into the building and because you were 'becoming increasingly concerned about the fire hazard for the other residence', etc. and I seriously doubt the police will take it further.

I'm impressed the pram lasted that long. We got some really shitty letters and threat to remove over a bloody door mat.

You didn't steal anything. You moved it from one communal space to another. Stand your ground and if (seems extremely unlikely to me) the police do get in touch, tell them exactly what happened with all the evidence from your emails etc. She has no case.

While I think what you have done is no unreasonable it is unclear where you will stand legally. A management company would be in its rights to dispose of the pram as abandoned but does another tenant/flat owner? In hindsight it would have probably have been wiser to insist the management company removed the pram before taking action yourself.

You moved the pram to an unsecured area where it was subsequently stolen and you may have some liability for that. Could the police say you removing it from the property was theft? I don't know, but would wait to see if she takes it any further then contact a solicitor for advice.

*not unreasonable! (lost a T)

Ignore ignore ignore. She has zero recourse.

Don't even give her headspace.

Many years ago I left a fridge outside my flat door for a while, not obstructing anything other than a bit of carpet. Management agency wrote to me saying 'remove by x date or we will at your cost' - they removed it and billed my letting agent who deducted it from my deposit (fairly enough)
You did nothing wrong.

I'm a Leaseholder in a block of 6 flats - 3 council/3 private.
Our caretakers remove anything that is in the main foyer with no warning; they just put the buggies and bikes in the main pathway, as everybody knows you can't leave prams/ bikes etc there.
The caretakers are employed by the council and they have been told to do this.

Completely ignore her now. She's a loon.

No legal bad things will happen to you.

Next time, be more sensible: move the item to the garden when nobody is looking and never mention that it was you who moved it.

A management company would be in its rights to dispose of the pram as abandoned but does another tenant/flat owner? In hindsight it would have probably have been wiser to insist the management company removed the pram before taking action yourself.

I take your point. Technically speaking though, I, and five other directors, instruct the management company who just do the admin.

Considering the dumb bitch is renting, I doubt she has the financial means to take legal action - whatever the blue-fuck that means.

Let her do her worst. As for the Police, that email you sent is worthless.

Unless she has video evidence, she has no leg to stand on. Fuck her threats.

Let her report you to the police . They will do nothing. The pram probably wasn't even stolen. If it was an obstruction then it could be a fire hazard and she's the one who should be prosecuted. IMHO

You pay your management company to deal with dicks.

Have nothing more to do with her. Refer everything to the management company.

Cosmic123 has applied logic to this situation

Ignore as she is unlikely to take further measures

But as others have pointed out management needs to take stricter measures against obstacles in corridors, which other companies are after the disaster last year

I'd wait and see - she's probably chancing her arm that she can frighten you into giving her some money for the pram.

I doubt very much she'd follow through on her threat to report you to the police and if she did, I doubt even more they'd have anything to charge you with - you didn't steal it, you put it in the garden and she knew you were going to.

Very unlikely that she'll take further action. It would cost more than the value of the pram to do so.

She was warned to move it as it was causing an obstruction. You moved it out of the way to allow access and told her you'd done so. She didn't retrieve it and (maybe) it got stolen. Not your responsibility.

I don't know the legalities around you removing it, but even if you were liable then she is only entitled to a second hand pram (i.e. be in the same position she was before you removed it)

Unless it was a very expensive pram initially then you would be able to get one cheaply on eBay I would imagine.

However, I would just ignore her and see what happens.

That’s what I think too @Hesterton

OP, you could become the first person in history to get arrested for the crime of "moving a pram into the garden."

Considering the dumb bitch is renting, I doubt she has the financial means to take legal action