What are my legal rights here? And WIBU?

[DidIDoTheWrongThing]

I live in a block of flats, six in total.

The top floor flat dweller has continuously left the pram she no longer uses (baby is now 3yo) in the ground floor communal corridor for nearly a year.

It is a narrow corridor, and to get past the pram you have to manoeuvre yourself around it. You can’t just walk straight past it. It was a major fire hazard and more than one person has fallen over it trying to get past.

Everyone in the building has complained about it but she hasn’t paid the slightest bit of notice.

I got fed up after the nth polite but firm email requesting its removal and informed her that unless she moved it by X date, I would remove the pram.

X date came and went, pram was still there. So I took the pram and put it in the garden.

This finally got a response. She went ballistic at me and claimed that it had been stolen by the time she went to collect it.

She is now demanding I pay for the pram and is threatening me with the police and legal action.

Was I being unreasonable and does anyone know what my legal position is on this?

Your managing agent has to take a stronger stance on this and adopt a zero tolerance policy on personal items being stored in the communal areas. Items like prams will be flagged up in the health, safety and fire risk assessments they undertake annually (or should) and until they tackle the issue the building technically isn't compliant.

At the end of the day, the communal areas aren't owned by the leaseholders, it's owned by the landlord (be it a man co or an individual freeholder) so, risk to safety due to poor access and egress aside, she shouldn't be storing items there as she doesn't own the space.

Forget legal rights ask the fire brigade to come and do a home safety visit.

The police are highly unlikely to take any notice. You haven't committed a criminal offence. She would have to bring a civil claim against you in the small claims court. If she can't be bothered to move a pram I doubt she will bother doing this.

In your place I would write a bogus preaction letter from a solicitor claiming that you tripped over it a injured yourself and that you will be taking her to court for damages. I'm sure that she will move it then.

Don't do that^, that is seriously bad advice 😂

It’s stolen, she should claim under her house insurance. All you did was move it.

I think I’d just ignore her for now. Police won’t be interested and I doubt she’ll issue a small claim. Wait and see what happens.

If you have plans to sell in the future then I would think carefully about what you do. I would try really hard to redirect this through the managing agents. You'd have to tell any potential buyers about a dispute. Shared freehold with a number of rented flats is already something many would avoid, never mind a dispute.

Legal action I would laugh in her face. You moved an item which was blocking the hallway and informed her you were going to do it. Do you know what type of pushchair it was? Just being nosey!

Ignore her. The police will not be interested. A legal dispute with a neighbour will affect things when you sell (you would have to declare it) so I'd nip this in the bud now and avoid further contact. She won't bother to sue you.

Have a look at the covenants and regulations in the lease. Also find the obligations of the management company. there should be a clause saying that the man co has to enforce covenants against other leaseholders, at the request of another.

Agree with previous advice to push this to the management company. They should have taken action. We rent out a flat and our agents are very strict on items left in communal areas, they write to everyone asking for items to be removed by a certain date then remove and dispose of anything remaining after that date.

As I understand it, it's a health and safety/fire requirement so they're obliged to enforce.

Just ignore her threats. Don't reply and don't worry. As PP have said Police won't be interested.

You moved it outside, so that it was longer an instruction in the hallway. You didn’t steal it. If it was stolen from outside, it’s her problem. She should have looked after her stuff, no left it lying about.

The freeholders (you and the other flag owners) can collectively tell her that she can’t keep things in the communal areas, and that any obstructions will be removed. I’d reconsider your managing agents, as the ones you currently have have been next to useless.

DidIdo I am a long standing housing association tenant and sit on a residents panel. As part of a previous role I checked and assessed tenancy agreements, surveyors reports and property deeds as a compliance underwriter.

Ignore. Police will just laugh.

Silly fool should find somewhere safe to store her clutter.

I understand your frustration but you shouldn’t have moved it. You needed to keep pressing the management company to deal with the issue.

She was unreasonable to leave the pram there.

However, you can't take matters into your own hands and remove it. By moving it outside, you took responsibility for it and therefore you are liable if it was stolen.

Next time, go through the proper channels - freeholder, building maintenance company etc. If you get no joy then speak to the fire service - they take a dim view of hazards like the hallway being blocked and will likely write to the person responsible for the building.

But yes, you must pay for the the lost pram.

But yes, you must pay for the the lost pram.

I am leaning this way.

But would it be a new one? Or replacement value (next to nothing)?

To keep the peace I’d look for an equivalent pram on Gumtree and give her the £20 or whatever.

However, you can't take matters into your own hands and remove it. By moving it outside, you took responsibility for it and therefore you are liable if it was stolen.

But what was I supposed to do with it when my friend came round? She is disabled and needed the whole space, and the pram was obstructing the path. It needed to be moved.

Was I supposed to move it out of the building when she came into the block then move it back to it’s obstructing bv place, then move it out again when my friend needed to leave, moving it back to it’s offending position after she left?

That’s bonkers!

I wouldn't do anything until I was compelled to by a court.

Nor would I enter into talking or correspondence about it.

Do nothing and she will likely fuck off.

@FrancisCrawford

That’s really interesting to know about the fire brigade. What enforceable powers do they have to make people remove fire hazards? And how do they perform spot checks?

However, you can't take matters into your own hands and remove it. By moving it outside, you took responsibility for it and therefore you are liable if it was stolen

Please dont listen to this.

She had been warned over and over again by you and the Management Company.