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Original poster

To think that women should be able to request a female doctor or nurse?

811 replies

Betti935 · 31/12/2017 01:15

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

Summary: A woman requested a female nurse to carry out her cervical smear test. When she arrived the nurse was clearly male (stubble, deep voice etc). When she questioned this, the nurse insisted that they were a woman because they were trans. The patient says she was made to feel like a bigot and in the end decided not to go ahead with the smear test.

Now in this case, the NHS Trust has apologised and said that the nurse did not handle the situation appropriately. However the government are planning to introduce into law the recommendations of the Women and Equalities Committee which include, not only allowing men to 'self-identify' as women without any medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but also to get rid of the exemptions currently in place.

Currently, while biological males can legally 'become' women (following a diagnosis of gender dysphoria - there is already no requirement to have any hormone treatment or surgery), there are some limited exemptions in law:

“If a service provider provides single or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present. However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different service or exclude a person from the service, who is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or who has undergone, gender reassignment. This will only be lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.” For example, it is currently legal for a group counselling session for female rape victims to exclude biological males if female clients would be not feel able to attend and participate in the group if they were present.

If this new legislation is passed and there are no exemptions allowing for transwomen (biological males) to be treated differently from biological women, there will be no way to protect vulnerable women who don't feel able to access rape services or medical services if they can't be sure of a female-only service.

This won't be like other rights conflicts (e.g. on sexual orientation versus religion) where test cases go to court and judgements are made because women won't exist as a separate protected group from transwomen.

OP posts:
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PositivelyPERF · 31/12/2017 10:27

And here we go with the belittling of rape victims. Women shouldn't get a choice because their feelings don't matter, only the feelings of the mentally ill or sexually deviant man matters. 😒

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 10:27

I think sadly many women do think that Canary. And even more men, including trans MTFs.

Datun · 31/12/2017 10:28

She's left because you are right aggressive buggars this morning - jumping on her like that. And you know it!!

No. It's because in an effort to point out that we live in a first world country and are privileged, she chose to use, as the example, vulnerable women who should suck it up, rather than the entitled man who might take offence if they don't.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 10:31

I think sadly many women do think that Canary. And even more men, including trans MTFs.

I was told recently on social media that I could not possibly be female because I lacked empathy which is a female trait Hmm

I never use violence but I do stand up for myself and this is thrown back at me as agression or whinning or I am told I need to get over myself.

Seriouslyjuicy · 31/12/2017 10:32

I know exactly how lucky i am to have the nhs inkanta, given that i have had close family members die in child birth, and from easily preventable/treatable diseases AND from malnutrition

None of that changes that i am a rape survivor and will ONLY tolerate female HCP

Backingvocals · 31/12/2017 10:33

I’m hoping this will help many more men and women reach peak trans. These threads are often on the feminism boards as if they are niche (I’m a feminist and I’m interested in feminist discussion so I read them and contribute but not everyone feels that way).

But this affects every woman. And every teenage girl. I think dads would be horrified at their teenage daughters having to tolerate this. Really hoping this goes mainstream.

PositivelyPERF · 31/12/2017 10:34

Oh why don't you men fuck off with your 'aggressive' bullshit. You find 'words' are aggressive but expect women who have been violently raped or sexually abused to open their legs and let some weirdo have a good look. Fucking hypocrites and bullshitters.

RainbowQuilter · 31/12/2017 10:35

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that.

If you are uncomfortable with a transwomen doing your smear test you will still have a right to request someone else, you always have that choice.

Inkanta · 31/12/2017 10:35

'She expects not to be jumped on when she told a rape survivor to "stop whining"? Do you think that's acceptable?'

It got twisted to look that way!!

Her comments were not directed at a rape survivor.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 31/12/2017 10:35

Having your ideas challenged is not aggression. Stick around and tell us why you think women should not be entitled to privacy and dignity?

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 10:36

I never use violence but I do stand up for myself and this is thrown back at me as agression or whinning or I am told I need to get over myself.

It's pure misogyny. They wouldn't apply the sane standards to a man.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 10:37

Her comments were not directed at a rape survivor.

They were. Because that was the reason given by several women.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 10:37

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that.

No transwomen are men. Born male with a penis which many many transwomen still have.

Why do you hate biology?

Datun · 31/12/2017 10:37

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that.

No they're not. They are transwomen. Unless you have a different definition of the word woman.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 10:38

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that.

People won't ever "understand" it, because it simply isn't true. The vast majority of the population do not believe it.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 10:38

Her comments were not directed at a rape survivor

Yes they were. Quite a few of us stated our reasons were rape. We were then said to be whinning.

Why do you think thats ok?

JacquesHammer · 31/12/2017 10:39

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that

No a transwoman is a transwoman

stitchglitched · 31/12/2017 10:39

Transwomen are not women. Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for the 'trans' bit.

Bindibot · 31/12/2017 10:39

I’m a ex-Nurse and have no issue with male HCPs. Thanks to a spinal issue I’ve also had more fingers up my bum than I like to think of (checkinging for tone/loss of sensation, etc basically cauda equina)

Saying all that for anything gyne I want a female. I,like so many, too many, women am a suvivor of rape & sexual assault.

I was ‘lucky’ not to be assualted analy.…but gyne exams freak me out. My lovely GP (male) and practice Nurse recognise this so I have a prescription of diazepam for my smear tests.

As a Nurse I would/should always respect patient wishes. We had one long term male patient who would only have a bath while wearing underwear. We respected that.

Mutiple patient who wanted a male/female nurse, again respected that unless the safety of the patient was comprised.

So if I was lying waiting for a smear a male-no matter how he identify as walked in I’d freak out, same as I would if any male walked in.

Thehairthebod · 31/12/2017 10:39

Transwomen are women. I wish people would understand that.

How are the women? How? Seriously, don't just plop and run, if you want me to understand it, help me understand it!

Thehairthebod · 31/12/2017 10:41

Am getting so sick of women who are discussing their bodily autonomy and boundaries as being dismissed as 'aggressive' by anyone who disagrees with them, before said person flouncing off.

So misogynistic.

Elendon · 31/12/2017 10:43

If you are uncomfortable with a transwomen doing your smear test you will still have a right to request someone else, you always have that choice.

If the trans woman is a HCP and a woman then they would understand totally the reason why someone would be upset. If they had empathy for women, being a woman and all, they would understand. It's not up to the person who is the patient to be scrabbling around looking for other HCPs to take care of them.

IsaSchmisa · 31/12/2017 10:44

This reply has been deleted

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Datun · 31/12/2017 10:45

I am pig sick of having to explain that male violence is a thing and that women are discriminated against because of our sex. I'm sick of having to explain why sex-segregated spaces and services, women's awards, sports, affirmative programmes and representation matter, as if these are new and strange ideas. It's like the women's rights movement never happened.

I completely agree. It's just breathtaking ignorance. In the truest sense of the word of 'not knowing'.

The reason for me describing it as breathtaking is because you wouldn't even be able to ask for a female doctor, because they wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for women's rights.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 31/12/2017 10:45

I hate being told I'm lucky to have the NHS and to suck it up because women have it worse in other countries.

The point is for all women in all counties to be able to demand the healthcare they need, not for us to accept bad care.

And the NHS is not free, we all pay for it.